Time to break out the wallet for new coilovers- Feal 441 Race"custom", or Xida Race..
#41
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
That said, my send boner is turgid over your commitment to huck. But this all sounds a lot different from "manhole covers," or "railroad tracks" or "crowns in an intersection" as was previously referenced. I do encounter a lot of those on my way to meet up with my Grindr boo thang, though.
#42
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I had to look at how much money helper springs are on Xidas. $220 for everything... Seriously $55 a corner... That's like base cost of materials. We'll find a way to argue about anything.
The next step up is a set of Penske's at ~$1k/corner for just the damper. In the scheme of product development/etc, $2k for Emilio's setup is priced pretty competitively.
The next step up is a set of Penske's at ~$1k/corner for just the damper. In the scheme of product development/etc, $2k for Emilio's setup is priced pretty competitively.
#43
Former Vendor
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Ryan's old Feal setup. Every time the helper decompresses, the main spring would have come loose. Every time the helper decompresses, it's helping the shock do its job
@concealer404 pls explain
#46
mkturbo.com
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/admin.png)
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 15,189
Total Cats: 1,685
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUU9a3bg0A
Ryan's old Feal setup. Every time the helper decompresses, the main spring would have come loose. Every time the helper decompresses, it's helping the shock do its job
@concealer404 pls explain
Ryan's old Feal setup. Every time the helper decompresses, the main spring would have come loose. Every time the helper decompresses, it's helping the shock do its job
@concealer404 pls explain
#47
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
That's not something i'm arguing against, nor have i. I feel like i'm in the twilight zone. Maybe we're talking about "unseating" in a different way. When i, and most people who i've now been discussing this with use the term "unseating" as it pertains to a spring, we're talking catastrophic unseating, where it does not return to where it's supposed to sit. Doesn't happen.
I can mirror what's shown in that video by hooking two fingers under my fender and pulling up with one hand. Since we love garage tests.
And if we do want to argue about that....
Helper decompressing means the main spring has less than the ~200lbs of load to hit block height, not the zero load required to come loose.
I can mirror what's shown in that video by hooking two fingers under my fender and pulling up with one hand. Since we love garage tests.
And if we do want to argue about that....
Helper decompressing means the main spring has less than the ~200lbs of load to hit block height, not the zero load required to come loose.
#49
Former Vendor
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
...no. Only you use that term ('unseating') to mean that ('catstrophic unseating which does not rectify itself'). If the spring comes unseated, I assure you that the 2400lb automobile will reseat it quite effectively. Only you have perceived that as a point of contention.
The issue is that if it ever comes unseated, nothing is pushing the shock down. If you go all the way back to Dan's post, and read the sentence after the one you bolded, he said exactly that.
Can we be done now?
The issue is that if it ever comes unseated, nothing is pushing the shock down. If you go all the way back to Dan's post, and read the sentence after the one you bolded, he said exactly that.
Can we be done now?
#51
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Guys, calm down lol. Damn this is MT I remember....but it was always roasting of The Newbs, not battle of the OGs lol.
Again. I'm not going for top-notch stuff, just something that can handle my wreckless *** on the street haha. I don't want to continue to polish the front wheel wells from the springs being too soft, or the rears to buck the car into the air over a bridge transition at 90mph.. I don't mind a stiff setup, nor do I mind if it can be adjusted to the oversteer-side of neutral.
So what are the real-world issues with FCMs? (Personal opinions aside)
Again. I'm not going for top-notch stuff, just something that can handle my wreckless *** on the street haha. I don't want to continue to polish the front wheel wells from the springs being too soft, or the rears to buck the car into the air over a bridge transition at 90mph.. I don't mind a stiff setup, nor do I mind if it can be adjusted to the oversteer-side of neutral.
So what are the real-world issues with FCMs? (Personal opinions aside)
#52
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm not OG. I just like discussing **** wiff mah frens.
Polishing the wheelwells means your suspension is working properly, from what i've learned on these forums.
Real world issues with the FCMs? Magic cloak 'n' dagger sauce with a side of maybe snake oil and million dollar rebuilds. If your budget allows for new good coilovers, don't mess around with used stuff. The savings will go **** up in the wrong direction the first time they need a service.
Polishing the wheelwells means your suspension is working properly, from what i've learned on these forums.
Real world issues with the FCMs? Magic cloak 'n' dagger sauce with a side of maybe snake oil and million dollar rebuilds. If your budget allows for new good coilovers, don't mess around with used stuff. The savings will go **** up in the wrong direction the first time they need a service.
#53
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I has question. Im probably gonna get owned but fuckit.
Well, wouldn't the unsprung weight be pulling the shock down? Surely the wheel/tire/knuckle is hefty enough to top out the shock. The valving/rebound zone of the shock when its nearly topped out is very mild anyways, so it wouldn't take much to move the shock the rest of the way. The momentary split second the main spring becomes unloaded doesn't seem significant enough to unseat itself.
My blast pants are on. fire away.
My blast pants are on. fire away.
#54
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I has question. Im probably gonna get owned but fuckit.
Well, wouldn't the unsprung weight be pulling the shock down? Surely the wheel/tire/knuckle is hefty enough to top out the shock. The valving/rebound zone of the shock when its nearly topped out is very mild anyways, so it wouldn't take much to move the shock the rest of the way. The momentary split second the main spring becomes unloaded doesn't seem significant enough to unseat itself.
My blast pants are on. fire away.
Well, wouldn't the unsprung weight be pulling the shock down? Surely the wheel/tire/knuckle is hefty enough to top out the shock. The valving/rebound zone of the shock when its nearly topped out is very mild anyways, so it wouldn't take much to move the shock the rest of the way. The momentary split second the main spring becomes unloaded doesn't seem significant enough to unseat itself.
My blast pants are on. fire away.
#56
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Maybe there is enough weight to pull the assembly down tot the ground when you actually lift a wheel.. But the moment the wheel hits the ground and supports its own weight there is no longer any pressure on that tire. No pressure on the tire is no grip/control. The Tender/helper spring is there to actually keep pressure on the tire while it is just touching the ground.
#57
Former Vendor
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Maybe not, but it also doesn't matter. Whether or not the spring comes unseated is sort of immaterial. A loose main spring is a symptom, the disease is poor wheel control. Extending the shock as far as possible, as fast as possible, is the goal of the helper.
#58
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Your reply is taken with much respect, and is definitely a large contributing factor in deciding that the Xida Race with 800/500 springs will be what goes on the MSM...along with a couple of other new parts- swaybars and endlinks. I'm looking forward to being able to enjoy driving the car and not be held back by the suspension. Even with typical MSM crappy power delivery/ECU, I can have plenty of fun in the twisties until I can get some kinda better engine management...and eventually get back to running a 2560 or whatever the new hotness is of equivalent size.
#59
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I have a set of Feal-442's that I got from Ryan Passley. Custom valved, he had to go back and add in helper springs. On my YCW suspension without helper springs I got lots of bounce and was not happy without the helpers.
No matter what suspension you get, I think helpers are needed.
No matter what suspension you get, I think helpers are needed.
#60
Former Vendor
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
IOW, I know of no race track on the planet where helpers would not be helpful.