SM moving to Penske, here come the cheap Bilsteins
#22
If you look at an actual SM suspension kits for sale, they are $1500 with sways and end links. Even that spreadsheet picture shows them to be $1110 if you assemble the kit yourself. So $1050 for shocks without springs/sways/end links, but with bumps, hats, etc is right in the ballpark. I assume a part of the reason why is that while Penske shocks are 2x price of Bilstein for shock itself, it will not require sleeves/perches. So it ends up being close enough for a total setup cost. And Penske will probably be valved specifically to SM rates, so no re-valve job is needed to get the most out of them (at least in theory).
#24
Interested to find out whether they're damping adjustable and what spring rates they're aiming at.
They've gone through some serious development (and will go thru more before they're released apparently): http://mazdamsports.staging.wpengine...s-Evolving.pdf
They've gone through some serious development (and will go thru more before they're released apparently): http://mazdamsports.staging.wpengine...s-Evolving.pdf
#27
Reading through the PDF linked above - I can't wait to try them out. I'm sure these will be threaded bodies and for current spring rates, but should provide much better ride quality. $100 not including shipping for rebuild is not terrible either IF they last and work as well as Mazda claims they will.
I'll jump to them in a heartbeat if they are anything like they are made up to be.
I'll jump to them in a heartbeat if they are anything like they are made up to be.
Last edited by 2slow; 08-15-2018 at 02:12 AM.
#28
If you look at an actual SM suspension kits for sale, they are $1500 with sways and end links. Even that spreadsheet picture shows them to be $1110 if you assemble the kit yourself. So $1050 for shocks without springs/sways/end links, but with bumps, hats, etc is right in the ballpark. I assume a part of the reason why is that while Penske shocks are 2x price of Bilstein for shock itself, it will not require sleeves/perches. So it ends up being close enough for a total setup cost. And Penske will probably be valved specifically to SM rates, so no re-valve job is needed to get the most out of them (at least in theory).
Again, just to make sure this makes sense, your "budget" Penske setup is going to start with $1300 in shocks and hats. If that's something you want to play with, then sure go for it. MY point is that at that point, it's not "budget" in the context of our cars. That's "Xidas." That's not "competitor to budget Bilstein." Might be good anyways. Probably would be. Comparing them to Bilsteins in this regard is intellectually bankrupt though. Of course they'll be better. That comes with spending a lot more on shocks.
#29
Lol why? These aren't the super pimpnasty Penskes...They aren't adjustable, they're probably not aluminum bodied (we'll see) and they're set up for SM, which isn't relevant to most Xidas users anyways. I'm sure they'll be sorta in the ballpark maybe sorta kinda, even my custom valved Bilsteins were IMO. But what sort of moron is going to cross shop "Well i can have this off the shelf" against "Well i can spend the same money and figure stuff out myself trying to make these non-adjustable shocks valved for a car that isn't set up like mine to hopefully match the off the shelf option?"
Not this moron. Maybe someone who has a weird vendetta against Emilio and won't stop posting about it.
Not this moron. Maybe someone who has a weird vendetta against Emilio and won't stop posting about it.
#31
That spreadsheet is NOT an SM suspension. It is not relevant for anything except determining how much more it will cost to build an equivalent street setup on Penskes, and the answer is "a chunk more."
Again, just to make sure this makes sense, your "budget" Penske setup is going to start with $1300 in shocks and hats. If that's something you want to play with, then sure go for it. MY point is that at that point, it's not "budget" in the context of our cars. That's "Xidas." That's not "competitor to budget Bilstein." Might be good anyways. Probably would be. Comparing them to Bilsteins in this regard is intellectually bankrupt though. Of course they'll be better. That comes with spending a lot more on shocks.
Again, just to make sure this makes sense, your "budget" Penske setup is going to start with $1300 in shocks and hats. If that's something you want to play with, then sure go for it. MY point is that at that point, it's not "budget" in the context of our cars. That's "Xidas." That's not "competitor to budget Bilstein." Might be good anyways. Probably would be. Comparing them to Bilsteins in this regard is intellectually bankrupt though. Of course they'll be better. That comes with spending a lot more on shocks.
Lol why? These aren't the super pimpnasty Penskes...They aren't adjustable, they're probably not aluminum bodied (we'll see) and they're set up for SM, which isn't relevant to most Xidas users anyways. I'm sure they'll be sorta in the ballpark maybe sorta kinda, even my custom valved Bilsteins were IMO. But what sort of moron is going to cross shop "Well i can have this off the shelf" against "Well i can spend the same money and figure stuff out myself trying to make these non-adjustable shocks valved for a car that isn't set up like mine to hopefully match the off the shelf option?"
Not this moron. Maybe someone who has a weird vendetta against Emilio and won't stop posting about it.
Not this moron. Maybe someone who has a weird vendetta against Emilio and won't stop posting about it.
According to the info we have so far, a complete set of shocks, stops, and hats costs $1050 shipped.
If the linked PDF in this thread is to be believed, they are aluminum bodies. What we do not know is whether they are threaded. If not, a sleeve kit ($120) obviously needs to be added to the price of the setup. That plus the cost of springs ($300) does indeed begin to approach Xida territory at a total cost of $1470 shipped. The ~$500 price difference will be a determining factor to some people, however.
That doesn't change the fact that the SM spring rates suck for everything except racing in SM.
#32
I have no dog in this hunt, as I am one of those weirdos who drives on a Fox setup, but I do like dealing in facts, so...
According to the info we have so far, a complete set of shocks, stops, and hats costs $1050 shipped.
If the linked PDF in this thread is to be believed, they are aluminum bodies. What we do not know is whether they are threaded. If not, a sleeve kit ($120) obviously needs to be added to the price of the setup. That plus the cost of springs ($300) does indeed begin to approach Xida territory at a total cost of $1470 shipped. The ~$500 price difference will be a determining factor to some people, however.
That doesn't change the fact that the SM spring rates suck for everything except racing in SM.
According to the info we have so far, a complete set of shocks, stops, and hats costs $1050 shipped.
If the linked PDF in this thread is to be believed, they are aluminum bodies. What we do not know is whether they are threaded. If not, a sleeve kit ($120) obviously needs to be added to the price of the setup. That plus the cost of springs ($300) does indeed begin to approach Xida territory at a total cost of $1470 shipped. The ~$500 price difference will be a determining factor to some people, however.
That doesn't change the fact that the SM spring rates suck for everything except racing in SM.
#33
Aluminum bodies = yes
"Correct" length dampers = yes
adjustable = no
Threaded bodies = ?? (my guess is NO)
$1050 shipped for 4 dampers, 4 top-hats, 4 custom tuned bumpstops = yes
Top and Bottom spherical bearings = yes
For someone who already has a DIY bilstein set-up, there's potential to swap to the Aluminum bodied Penskes for $600-700 out of pocket (depending on Bilstein resale).
Building from scratch and buying springs puts you pretty close to XIDA territory.
Personally, I run a set of revalved Bilsteins when we race in ChampCar and mine work pretty darn well. It's a properly good revalve job. But, swapping to these Penskes is definitely appealing. Proper damper lengths plus aluminum bodies is a big plus...
"Correct" length dampers = yes
adjustable = no
Threaded bodies = ?? (my guess is NO)
$1050 shipped for 4 dampers, 4 top-hats, 4 custom tuned bumpstops = yes
Top and Bottom spherical bearings = yes
For someone who already has a DIY bilstein set-up, there's potential to swap to the Aluminum bodied Penskes for $600-700 out of pocket (depending on Bilstein resale).
Building from scratch and buying springs puts you pretty close to XIDA territory.
Personally, I run a set of revalved Bilsteins when we race in ChampCar and mine work pretty darn well. It's a properly good revalve job. But, swapping to these Penskes is definitely appealing. Proper damper lengths plus aluminum bodies is a big plus...
#34
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Reading through the PDFs and other information present it states that what Penske brought to the table was equal in lap times to the current SM Bilstien setup (in qualifying and race lap times), but they will be revising and testing the valving more to improve the lap time. I don't see why the bodies wouldn't be threaded because that's all I've seen offered from them in the past.
If you're lazy and/or tend to forget to adjust your dampers at the track and want a non adjustable, high performance quality option, I could see making a good DIY setup from these. Not saying their better than XIDA or similar offerings, I just thing there its another good option. Especially if you have everything besides the Bilstiens laying around.
If you're lazy and/or tend to forget to adjust your dampers at the track and want a non adjustable, high performance quality option, I could see making a good DIY setup from these. Not saying their better than XIDA or similar offerings, I just thing there its another good option. Especially if you have everything besides the Bilstiens laying around.
#36
I have adjusted my shocks before/during the event exactly once. Ever since (and through multiple cars) once set, i don't touch them really. I bet this is the case for many people, this is also true for anyone rolling Bilsteins since they are not adjustable in the first place . So getting non-adjustable setup for around $1,000 is not a huge deal. If the performance of Penske is better than Billies, then I don't see why anyone wouldn't go with them instead. After all, they will be valved specifically to the springs in question (unlike Bs) and fine tuned for racing Miatas. Really, I think this is a massive and positive step for SM and see only good things happening here.
#38
Now that ACE thing that 949 has where you can run super low spring rates I could see being close to comfortable when it needs to on the ride home and fast at the track.
Oh, and I don't *think* Penske makes a steel shock or one that doesn't have a threaded body.
#39
1000/500 on xidas isn't plush by any means, but the difference between track settings and street settings is night and day. Low damping is a little floaty, but completely composed on the steet and much more comfy. Well worth it for a dual duty car. Would never want to be locked in at track damping.
I read on the SM forums that it'd be aluminum body, but not threaded. Will have to port sleeves over from billies. We'll find out soon enough.
I read on the SM forums that it'd be aluminum body, but not threaded. Will have to port sleeves over from billies. We'll find out soon enough.