SLAM IT BRO Large Roll Couples = bad4pussies High Roll Centers = INSIDE LIFT MORE BAD
#61
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Trust me, it's not that I wouldn't like to provide concise accurate responses. It's just that a lot of these posts are newly formed ideas that I'm not entirely sure about so I end up posting the majority of my thought process which is an effective means of communicating to arrive at a correct, concise thought.
For example, instead of all the semi-complete thought process posts, I would now write something much more summarized:
(I think I finally have something worth reading, the length is actual information and not just rambling!)
Knowing that a tuned/calculated damping value exists for a spring&mass system, and that it is based on an amount of energy being transferred back and forth in a simple closed system of spring&mass, when an external force (being originally provided from the kinetic energy of the vehicle) acts on the sprung mass it changes the system and the amount of energy in the sprung mass is not originally accounted for in simple closed spring&mass, in order to reach a equilibrium where KE_sm=PE_spring in a timely, linear fashion that is not overdamped the amount of damping must be reduced. I believe most of this non-linearity is taken care of in the design of the damping valve though. However, because of the limits of the valve design, and the more effective response time of being underdamped for large forces of short duration, the high speed compression damping should be relatively low. Although, the harder the spring the more damping you will want because the higher spring-rate will absorb the same amount of energy with a shorter displacement. It's only in high speed compression damping where the "harder spring, less compression damping" myth is true because you need the responsiveness of being underdamped to prevent the bumps from upsetting the chassis. By lowering compression damping only at high speed from high forces/bumps you're lowering suspension pressure sum to work pretty much like a spring that's only soft when you need it to be (note the similarity of an effectively tuned suspension to an effectively operating *****, schmeh schmeh schmeh...., well minus the whole aspect of only being able to "act soft" for less than the duration/period of the oscillation frequency)
For example, instead of all the semi-complete thought process posts, I would now write something much more summarized:
(I think I finally have something worth reading, the length is actual information and not just rambling!)
Knowing that a tuned/calculated damping value exists for a spring&mass system, and that it is based on an amount of energy being transferred back and forth in a simple closed system of spring&mass, when an external force (being originally provided from the kinetic energy of the vehicle) acts on the sprung mass it changes the system and the amount of energy in the sprung mass is not originally accounted for in simple closed spring&mass, in order to reach a equilibrium where KE_sm=PE_spring in a timely, linear fashion that is not overdamped the amount of damping must be reduced. I believe most of this non-linearity is taken care of in the design of the damping valve though. However, because of the limits of the valve design, and the more effective response time of being underdamped for large forces of short duration, the high speed compression damping should be relatively low. Although, the harder the spring the more damping you will want because the higher spring-rate will absorb the same amount of energy with a shorter displacement. It's only in high speed compression damping where the "harder spring, less compression damping" myth is true because you need the responsiveness of being underdamped to prevent the bumps from upsetting the chassis. By lowering compression damping only at high speed from high forces/bumps you're lowering suspension pressure sum to work pretty much like a spring that's only soft when you need it to be (note the similarity of an effectively tuned suspension to an effectively operating *****, schmeh schmeh schmeh...., well minus the whole aspect of only being able to "act soft" for less than the duration/period of the oscillation frequency)
#63
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Quoting op
"Although, the harder the spring the more damping you will want because the higher spring-rate will absorb the same amount of energy with a shorter displacement."
Its not about having low compression damping. you need the correct high speed compression damping to counter the unsprung mass on that corner, not to control the spring. This is my thoughts.
Dann
"Although, the harder the spring the more damping you will want because the higher spring-rate will absorb the same amount of energy with a shorter displacement."
Its not about having low compression damping. you need the correct high speed compression damping to counter the unsprung mass on that corner, not to control the spring. This is my thoughts.
Dann
Last edited by nitrodann; 06-18-2011 at 11:29 AM.
#67
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It's only in high speed compression damping where the "harder spring, less compression damping" myth is true because you need the responsiveness of being underdamped to prevent the bumps from upsetting the chassis.
#68
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The reason for having softer high speed bump than high speed rebound is not due to different effects of sprung and unsprung masses.
#71
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Sorry, I made it seem like "use less compression damping with the harder spring than the soft spring" when I really meant that you'd just want to use less high speed compression damping relative to low speed comp damping on a harder spring so that: (low speed comp damping of harder spring - high speed comp damping of harder) > (lscd of softer spring - hscd of softer spring) to the point where the difference in Q between the hard spring settings is larger than the difference in Q between between the soft spring setting or "harder spring, high speed compression should be comparatively more underdamped"
#73
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Also, assuming he's got a self-adjusting machine or someone helping him with the controls, you should find that TIG'n toddler and get him into racing as he is exhibiting quite the refined development of his motor skills.
#76
![Red face](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon11.gif)
Unfortunately, I'm not that knowledgeable on the ms3 just yet. Once I take it out of the box and start playing with it, the obsession will yield motivation for reading binge. If you can't find your answer via Google, I might do some ms3 reading later. I'd usually just search something like that right now, but on phone and I'm about to clip in and dip out (bicycles counter the effects of binge drinking and waffle house)
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