oreo

Pat -the issue is with the end that goes into the knuckle.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Opps! Pretty sure those were different, not sure about wheel bearing side. I did show the other photo that shows both have a taper but it's a shorter length before the taper on the MSM.

oreo

Well, I called the Mazda dealership and tried to order two seals.
After identifying the vehicle the parts guy said after a minute or so "There is no seal on the axle at the knuckle/hub end".
I then explained how there were seals.
He then explained that the bearing had a seal, and that's all there was.

I hung up thinking I was going to need to bring a seal and a diagram over to the dealership, so he would know what I was talking about.

Then I thought to look at ebay listings to see what used hubs had on them. There were very few for sale, but many more that had been sold which I reviewed.
Surprisingly, the 2004 and up models, did not have seals on them and from the dirt and rust, looked like they never had a seal. (I saw examples of 2002 having a seal, but nothing later)

So at this point, I am thinking that 2004 and later axles do not have this seal.

tomrev

To test that idea, have you pulled the seal, and tried to bolt up the axle / nut with success?

oreo

I have been running the car without seals starting a few days before I started this thread.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Wonder if that explains why the middle axle in pat's picture looks so munged and grungy.

x_25

Well, this is all super handy info to know and is going to save me a ton of trouble over this winter when I put an MSM setup in my 90.

tomrev

Exactly! I am right behind you, and would have gone thru the whole head scratching bit.

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

Crazy that with all the hubs I've sold you're the first one to run into this! Glad a "solution" was found.

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

Well son of a bitch,

96 base-



05 base-


And just to be sure they don't show it on the axle drawing either for the 05 base-


26-471 is the tone ring

themonkeyman

But when was the switch? The 99 knuckles I swapped into my 91 had seals.

UPDATE; After searching through the parts fiches on Jim Ellis, '02 was the last year with seals. 2003+ do not have them.

x_25

Huh. So now the question for me is, is there any difference in the bearing seal? Or did they just decide the axle seal was not needed?

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

We don't run seals on our Champ Car. Mazda apparently decided at some point the seal wasn't needed with a sealed bearing.

Lokiel

Pos-cat left @ post#23 for oreo; as another MSM owner with these hubs (to be installed when I get time), you've saved me plenty of grief figuring this out.

It's definitely worth looking at the factory manuals for these details for confirmation BEFORE starting the job (might have been tempted to use the hammer on it if I didn't know better).

hi-Im_sean, can you please mention this in your thread/instructions and/or cross-reference this thread since it also affect late-model NBs, not just MSMs?

hi_im_sean

iTrader: (3)

For sure.

The Australian

My car is still sitting on stands after installing the SADFab mr2 hubs with seals. I too cannot move the wheels without difficulty once hub bolt is torqued.

Mine is a 2003 NB (not MSM) and there were no seals in place on the old hubs. I had put this down to previous intervention rather than design.

Glad this has been clarified.

edit: I pulled the seals out of mine last night, and although the wheels have turned only a handful of times, it is clear that the seals had been clamped and grinding against the taper described above and did not fit, and Having removed them and torqued to the hub nut to spec, all spins freely.

I recently acquired a late ‘03 from a lady in her 70’s (read: mechanically untouched) and quick peak underneath reveals no seals between the axle and hub/upright.

themonkeyman

I wonder if this is axle or knuckle dependent.

Gee Emm

Well, I dunno.

Mine were installed on my 2004 MSM as delivered eons ago, and this was not an issue. While I did have an issue, it was not related to this (dag on the spline).

To be sure, I will check the ease of rotation next time it is up on stands. Now that I think of it, it will be up on the hoist next week ...

The Australian

when I pulled mine out this evening, they were a good way towards clearancing themselves on the cv housing and knuckle, and I had only turned the wheels on axle stands for 10 seconds or so. Both sides had powdered seal on the outside of the knuckle. Given even a short drive, I suspect they would have worn away anything that could cause resistance.

The Australian

Noting the photos shared by Oreo above, the axle appears to be different. The seals fitted into my uprights, but fouled the taper on the axle.