What's wrong with superchargers?
#4
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX / Lafayette, LA
Posts: 272
Total Cats: 3
I ran a ffs cold side setup for about 3 years. the major issue is the heat, both heat soaking the blower and heating the air. I ran water injection, both pre and post blower, and never had a problem. I was running 13psi, 225-230rwhp, and the car was predominately used for track days. before I took it apart to go V8, it was one of the fastest track miatas in texas. If you are looking for a FFS kit for a 99-00 let me know, because I've been meaning to post mine up for sale.
#5
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,339
Total Cats: 6,793
A man walks up to a young woman in a bar and says "I can tell that you're going to get laid tonight."
"And how do you know that?" the woman asks, "Are you psychic?"
"No, I'm just stronger than you."
It's not so much that we hate positive-displacement superchargers, we just hate the people who use them. There are two principle and vastly different reasons for this.
First, the Miata aftermarket is at present principally supplied with supercharger systems by two specific vendors who have historically tended to make false and misleading statements about the kits that they sell. This has tended not even to involve the superchargers themselves, but rather the brain-damaged engine management solutions which they have packaged along with them.
Second, there's virtually no reason why one would actually be justified in installing a positive-displacement supercharger as opposed to a turbocharger. All else being equal, positive-displacement superchargers tend to be more expensive, less efficient, hotter running and make less power than a comparable turbo system.
In considering these facts, one can then look with considerable opprobrium at the extremely vocal minority of Miata owners who blindly espouse with near religious fervor the virtues not only of positive-displacement superchargers in general, but of the lying jackasses mentioned in point #1 in particular.
And here is a picture of a cat:
"And how do you know that?" the woman asks, "Are you psychic?"
"No, I'm just stronger than you."
It's not so much that we hate positive-displacement superchargers, we just hate the people who use them. There are two principle and vastly different reasons for this.
First, the Miata aftermarket is at present principally supplied with supercharger systems by two specific vendors who have historically tended to make false and misleading statements about the kits that they sell. This has tended not even to involve the superchargers themselves, but rather the brain-damaged engine management solutions which they have packaged along with them.
Second, there's virtually no reason why one would actually be justified in installing a positive-displacement supercharger as opposed to a turbocharger. All else being equal, positive-displacement superchargers tend to be more expensive, less efficient, hotter running and make less power than a comparable turbo system.
In considering these facts, one can then look with considerable opprobrium at the extremely vocal minority of Miata owners who blindly espouse with near religious fervor the virtues not only of positive-displacement superchargers in general, but of the lying jackasses mentioned in point #1 in particular.
And here is a picture of a cat:
#14
I swear, I completely agree with the overall (and dramatic) superiority of the turbocharger in almost all applications. But it's silly sometimes the lengths people go to argue this point...suggesting that lots of torque way down at 2500 rpm is somehow bad.
Really?
As for why I want to shift at 4k, I think I have a completely legitimate reason. After 4k, the Whipplecharger's volume is migraine-inducing.
#15
I wasnt arguing anything i guess this speaks better for what i'm trying to say.
Both dynos are limited by the stock injectors.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...odooII_1.6.pdf
Both dynos are limited by the stock injectors.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...odooII_1.6.pdf
#16
nothing wrong with superchargers. they're just not the best. here at mt we want the best. we are 1337 like that.
also there is nothing wrong with 200wtq at 2500. in fact, anyone that claims it sucks or you don't need it there obviously doesn't enjoy a VERY fun street car. throwing you back in your seat and hauling **** without having to be wound out to redline is a wonderful feeling. I enjoy it daily.
AND YET
there's absolutely no reason you can't achieve this with turbochargers. just run a small enough one. Its been proven too many times to count that a well set up gt2554 setup will embarrass the common supercharger setup on our cars. it is better EVERYWHERE
*****short version:
also there is nothing wrong with 200wtq at 2500. in fact, anyone that claims it sucks or you don't need it there obviously doesn't enjoy a VERY fun street car. throwing you back in your seat and hauling **** without having to be wound out to redline is a wonderful feeling. I enjoy it daily.
AND YET
there's absolutely no reason you can't achieve this with turbochargers. just run a small enough one. Its been proven too many times to count that a well set up gt2554 setup will embarrass the common supercharger setup on our cars. it is better EVERYWHERE
*****short version:
Last edited by 18psi; 10-30-2018 at 04:28 PM.
#18
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
Total Cats: 43
I had an M45 Jackson kit for about six months running 10psi intercooled with meth injection. Was the car quicker than a stock miata? Hell Yes. Did I get beat routinely in any kind of acceleration incident by a turbo miata with 10psi? Yes. That "massive amount of torque at 2500rpm" didn't really amount to dick considering overall power achieved was greater on the turbo car. . .
It was a very interesting experiment none the less but my conclusion is that I'd never have another positive displacement charger on a miata again. Ever. Granted the JRSC M45 was the shittiest blower made for this specific car, I really got tired of buying belts every 2 weeks and having to tighten them almost every day or it would start slipping.
Racing around with friends in their lightnings or 03/04 Cobras the sound of an Eaton coming at you always made me giggle but after owning and driving Turbo cars, screw these blowers. Even with WMI and a semi-quality FMIC my IATs were way higher than the turbo miata I tuned. Much to my surprise the FMIC didn't really seem to change the throttle response / power transition a single bit, even though I increased the intake manifold volume by several liters in the process.
That's my perspective on SC Miatas. For the type of driving I'd be doing in basically any vehicle I owned, turbos are by far a greater match in the long run.
You could always buy a used ForFucksSake Cold side Yo-Yo Charger from tann3r AND turbo it. . . . Just throw away that powercard crap and get a REAL fuel solution running FOUR properly sized injectors via Hydra/AEM/Adaptronic/FAST/Megasquirt/Tec/Etc.
Here's an article on compound boost (Turbo pushing air into blower): http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...a/viewall.html
It was a very interesting experiment none the less but my conclusion is that I'd never have another positive displacement charger on a miata again. Ever. Granted the JRSC M45 was the shittiest blower made for this specific car, I really got tired of buying belts every 2 weeks and having to tighten them almost every day or it would start slipping.
Racing around with friends in their lightnings or 03/04 Cobras the sound of an Eaton coming at you always made me giggle but after owning and driving Turbo cars, screw these blowers. Even with WMI and a semi-quality FMIC my IATs were way higher than the turbo miata I tuned. Much to my surprise the FMIC didn't really seem to change the throttle response / power transition a single bit, even though I increased the intake manifold volume by several liters in the process.
That's my perspective on SC Miatas. For the type of driving I'd be doing in basically any vehicle I owned, turbos are by far a greater match in the long run.
You could always buy a used ForFucksSake Cold side Yo-Yo Charger from tann3r AND turbo it. . . . Just throw away that powercard crap and get a REAL fuel solution running FOUR properly sized injectors via Hydra/AEM/Adaptronic/FAST/Megasquirt/Tec/Etc.
Here's an article on compound boost (Turbo pushing air into blower): http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...a/viewall.html
#20
Many years ago I drove an M62 + TDR i/c setup on a 2000 miata with some kind of fuel and timing box.
My car at the time had the GT2554.
My car made more torque everywhere. Even at 1500 RPM. Weird, I know.
And his car had endless pinging issues.
Additionally, the M62 setup had some weird unpleasant vibrations, at certain RPMs. Dunno if this has since been fixed.
My car at the time had the GT2554.
My car made more torque everywhere. Even at 1500 RPM. Weird, I know.
And his car had endless pinging issues.
Additionally, the M62 setup had some weird unpleasant vibrations, at certain RPMs. Dunno if this has since been fixed.