water to air intercoolers
#21
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Ya, the air-water cooler keeps the throttled volume down, but these days I my opinion its not a cost effective option + the added complication seems unattractive. This is due to the option of adequate ebay A-A's and the growing number of DTB setups which allow better than stock SC throttle response. I personally saw a DTB setup the other day (rather simple implementation) and the throttle response was unbelieveable. I have a stock MP62 (lowest throttle volume) and the DTB setup made me envious.
#22
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Either way you are adding complication and cost.
The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.
Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.
Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
#23
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Ya, the air-water cooler keeps the throttled volume down, but these days I my opinion its not a cost effective option + the added complication seems unattractive. This is due to the option of adequate ebay A-A's and the growing number of DTB setups which allow better than stock SC throttle response. I personally saw a DTB setup the other day (rather simple implementation) and the throttle response was unbelieveable. I have a stock MP62 (lowest throttle volume) and the DTB setup made me envious.
#25
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I don't know that I can agree about the cost/complication. I am purchasing my intercooler from Spearco (the only part I'm still waiting on), the coolant tank, pump, fittings, hose, and heat exchanger I bought on Ebay. My total cost is under $600. I figure it will take about an hour to get it installed. My IC will be inline with the crossover pipe, so I need two 90* elbows and 4 pieces of silicone hose. I've spent about 2 hours installing my heat exchanger and running the coolant lines, installing the tank and pump and wiring the pump. All in all pretty simple.
You could do an a-a setup cheaper with ebay ic if you fabbed your own ic pipes. I will give him that, but the a-a kits are >2x what I have into my setup.
If I wasn't running a PD S/C I would run an a-a setup and it would be simpler.
#26
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Sounds like same routing as me. Super simple, easy, and cheap. Easy to remove to work on other parts also with all the clamps within easy reach.
You could do an a-a setup cheaper with ebay ic if you fabbed your own ic pipes. I will give him that, but the a-a kits are >2x what I have into my setup.
If I wasn't running a PD S/C I would run an a-a setup and it would be simpler.
You could do an a-a setup cheaper with ebay ic if you fabbed your own ic pipes. I will give him that, but the a-a kits are >2x what I have into my setup.
If I wasn't running a PD S/C I would run an a-a setup and it would be simpler.
#28
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If you are completing the setup for under $600 than by all means go the water-air route because it has its benefits as stated. I was thinking it was going to be in the neigbourhood of $1000 based on the old Jackson Racing unit. That's my may problem with intercooler kits for the MP62 (TDR same price). The DIY approach is always more beneficial (plus you get to tinker) and I hope that you report the results (IAT's is possible) so that there is more data (more current data) to differentiate the two options.
#29
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It seems I would be going A/W for a totally different reason than any of you guys... large reservoir tank, full of ice... ya know, a drag race setup that will still function on the street without the ice. 400whp with ice in the tank would be neat.
Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
#30
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It seems I would be going A/W for a totally different reason than any of you guys... large reservoir tank, full of ice... ya know, a drag race setup that will still function on the street without the ice. 400whp with ice in the tank would be neat.
Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
Then again I could just keep my A/A and add meth injection and it'd probably work out the same.
#31
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[QUOTE=Staffah;572830]If you are completing the setup for under $600 than by all means go the water-air route because it has its benefits as stated. I was thinking it was going to be in the neigbourhood of $1000 based on the old Jackson Racing unit. That's my may problem with intercooler kits for the MP62 (TDR same price). The DIY approach is always more beneficial (plus you get to tinker) and I hope that you report the results (IAT's is possible) so that there is more data (more current data) to differentiate the two options.[/QUOTE
Thanks to Ebay, the DIY option is very doable for a reasonable cost. I will post up data when I have some. It will be awhile yet, I'm still waiting on the IC, a new nose pulley and a few little odds and ends, I was hoping to be done by the end of May, we'll see.
Thanks to Ebay, the DIY option is very doable for a reasonable cost. I will post up data when I have some. It will be awhile yet, I'm still waiting on the IC, a new nose pulley and a few little odds and ends, I was hoping to be done by the end of May, we'll see.
#35
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Just thought I'd add pictures of my BSP A/W intercooler. Might help out the guys trying to put together a similar setup.
It is a spearco A/W intercooler. Jabsco Cyclone pump circulating water through a generic oil cooler, with the radiator overflow tank as the reservoir.
![Name: engine.jpg
Views: 983
Size: 61.9 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196654d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-engine.jpg)
It is a spearco A/W intercooler.
![Name: cleaning2.jpg
Views: 785
Size: 75.3 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196655d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-cleaning2.jpg)
Tight fit, choose your fans wisely.
![Name: P1050364.jpg
Views: 1145
Size: 75.4 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196656d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-p1050364.jpg)
I recently redid the steel brackets, which were heavy and nasty with some rust. Fabbed some new ones up using aluminum.
It is a spearco A/W intercooler. Jabsco Cyclone pump circulating water through a generic oil cooler, with the radiator overflow tank as the reservoir.
![Name: engine.jpg
Views: 983
Size: 61.9 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196654d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-engine.jpg)
It is a spearco A/W intercooler.
![Name: cleaning2.jpg
Views: 785
Size: 75.3 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196655d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-cleaning2.jpg)
Tight fit, choose your fans wisely.
![Name: P1050364.jpg
Views: 1145
Size: 75.4 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196656d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-p1050364.jpg)
I recently redid the steel brackets, which were heavy and nasty with some rust. Fabbed some new ones up using aluminum.
![Name: P1050365.jpg
Views: 700
Size: 48.6 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/supercharger-discussion-38/196657d1501234917-water-air-intercoolers-p1050365.jpg)
#37
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Either way you are adding complication and cost.
The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.
Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
The fact remains tho that the MP62 only puts out a fixed volume per rotation. So if you have 1 or 2 TBs there will still be a delay in response with larger volume. 2 Helps mask the response issue and completely fixes all the idle/vacuum volume issues.
Compromise either way IMO. I went with A/W because they are stupid simple to install and reliable. Used a bosch pump from Lightning/Cobra, some radiator hose and hard lines, IC, and heat exchanger. Basically did it the way Ford does it OEM. Works for them and works for me.
I've got a JR SC since 2006, running great but can't squeeze more power without IC first.
I'm considering the Jackson Racing Air/Water Inter-cooler system...
![](http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Graphics/UK/Products/Large/999-651.jpg)
Or a Spearco based DIY kit
Or these from chargecooler (not bad...)
Last edited by lo/rez; 08-28-2010 at 05:49 AM.
#40
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Making them for sure, but Moss still got some in stock (at least in UK)
After few days of research and feedback from users:
the heat exchanger in that kit is too small, one needs to replace it with a bigger one anyway.
So, if I'll go with W/A -and I say 'if' - I'll DIY assembling:
1. A PWR Chargecooler (they are the best in terms of built and flow (both water and air). Either the 290mm or the 350mm, 100mm diam. will fit.
2. A decent size heat exchanger (there are tons around, so easy to find and cheap)
3. A good pump though, and I'll fit it with a failure warning circuit.
4. Some silicon elbows and good pipes.
Plan B: Il go A/A with a DTB
After few days of research and feedback from users:
the heat exchanger in that kit is too small, one needs to replace it with a bigger one anyway.
So, if I'll go with W/A -and I say 'if' - I'll DIY assembling:
1. A PWR Chargecooler (they are the best in terms of built and flow (both water and air). Either the 290mm or the 350mm, 100mm diam. will fit.
2. A decent size heat exchanger (there are tons around, so easy to find and cheap)
3. A good pump though, and I'll fit it with a failure warning circuit.
4. Some silicon elbows and good pipes.
Plan B: Il go A/A with a DTB
![big grin](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)