Ted75zcar's questionable logic - the '91 compound turbo-super
#121
Tweaking Enginerd
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Very nice!
Everything looks logically laid out and well constructed. (I like it when things are new and clean!)
Man, you are using a lot of sensors here. You will have lots of data, once things are running.
Some questions:
What pulley ratio are you using on the SC?
Is there a separate intercooler between the turbo and SC inlet?
Do you have a target boost level you are planning to run?
You got that leak fixed yet? We want to see on road videos of boost at idle!
Everything looks logically laid out and well constructed. (I like it when things are new and clean!)
Man, you are using a lot of sensors here. You will have lots of data, once things are running.
Some questions:
What pulley ratio are you using on the SC?
Is there a separate intercooler between the turbo and SC inlet?
Do you have a target boost level you are planning to run?
You got that leak fixed yet? We want to see on road videos of boost at idle!
1 - Initially, 145/83. I have a 62.5 that I can throw on there later if I want. Even the initial ratio turns it into a 3.5l as far as the turbo is concerned.
2 - yep, need to keep the temps on the rotor-pack seals in check!
3 - 250kPa absolute, so ~ 24 psi relative in my neck of the woods
4 - nope, parts ordered. I got the leak slowed to a point where I think I can do some initial testing, see what else is going to break before taking it apart.
Hey there was a guy over there on miata.net asking about using the Cobalt SC.
#123
Tweaking Enginerd
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Quick update,
So as shown in the video, the car was leaking a lot when I first started it. As feared, it turned out to be the oil filer relocation adapter. Upon removal, I discovered that the o-ring diameter is too big for the filter flat surface on the block.
PSA: the Moroso universal filter relocation adapter for imports comes with an oring that is not compatible with the miata. Luckly, I had an oil filter for my F250 on the shelf (Fram HM8A) and it has a square oring that is just about perfect. The Moroso part is quality, just needs a different oring.
What other adventures... IM nuts decided they wanted to be someplace else, so now the have threadlocker. The upper alternator mount bolts backed out, they too now have threadlocker. The NVH with the Supermiata hybrid MM setup is tolerable, but I am chasing down shakes and rattles all over the place. I have knocked down most of the biggies, now I am after the resonant ones that only happen in narrow operating ranges. The #1 coil vibrated against the hood at idle, I had the intake CAM gear off 1 tooth. I had a bad weld in one of the heat shields. I am using non-standard crank triggering, so the MS Miata decoder doesn't work for me. Took a fair amount of thinking to get full sync over a decent range of CAM advance. Many more.
car is on the road now. I forgot how docile NA miatas are, especially when they are driving a parasitic 1l supercharger at 5280 ft of elevation. The 6 speed 4.1 combo works for this power level, but I am sure I will be chomping at the bit on getting the 3.3 in there.
I am in the process of dialing VVT, may be ready to add boost next weekend.
oh, and the MS3 kicks effin A$$ compared to the MS2.
So as shown in the video, the car was leaking a lot when I first started it. As feared, it turned out to be the oil filer relocation adapter. Upon removal, I discovered that the o-ring diameter is too big for the filter flat surface on the block.
PSA: the Moroso universal filter relocation adapter for imports comes with an oring that is not compatible with the miata. Luckly, I had an oil filter for my F250 on the shelf (Fram HM8A) and it has a square oring that is just about perfect. The Moroso part is quality, just needs a different oring.
What other adventures... IM nuts decided they wanted to be someplace else, so now the have threadlocker. The upper alternator mount bolts backed out, they too now have threadlocker. The NVH with the Supermiata hybrid MM setup is tolerable, but I am chasing down shakes and rattles all over the place. I have knocked down most of the biggies, now I am after the resonant ones that only happen in narrow operating ranges. The #1 coil vibrated against the hood at idle, I had the intake CAM gear off 1 tooth. I had a bad weld in one of the heat shields. I am using non-standard crank triggering, so the MS Miata decoder doesn't work for me. Took a fair amount of thinking to get full sync over a decent range of CAM advance. Many more.
car is on the road now. I forgot how docile NA miatas are, especially when they are driving a parasitic 1l supercharger at 5280 ft of elevation. The 6 speed 4.1 combo works for this power level, but I am sure I will be chomping at the bit on getting the 3.3 in there.
I am in the process of dialing VVT, may be ready to add boost next weekend.
oh, and the MS3 kicks effin A$$ compared to the MS2.
#125
Ted - whew - just read all of it.
I am very interested in hearing more about your mods to the EBC. I also hate that thing (4-port Mac) and know it should function better. Can you supply plans of your 'widget' compensation ckt so I can build one? Have you found that these mods have improved the PID controller response (which I find to be nearly useless).
Did you go to TheBoostCreep last year? The tuner mentioned a charger/turbo setup and said he never got to tune it. Did you get this beast tuned yet?
Can you share some graphs of your MAP as you transfer between charger and turbo? Is it smooth?
Thanks for all of your work and documentation! Very inspiring.
I am very interested in hearing more about your mods to the EBC. I also hate that thing (4-port Mac) and know it should function better. Can you supply plans of your 'widget' compensation ckt so I can build one? Have you found that these mods have improved the PID controller response (which I find to be nearly useless).
Did you go to TheBoostCreep last year? The tuner mentioned a charger/turbo setup and said he never got to tune it. Did you get this beast tuned yet?
Can you share some graphs of your MAP as you transfer between charger and turbo? Is it smooth?
Thanks for all of your work and documentation! Very inspiring.
#126
Tweaking Enginerd
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Yo, thanks for the nice comments. I did take the prototype by the boostcreep back in 2016. I wanted to see what his story was. I wasn't going to put that version on the dyno because it was destined to be completely redone with what I just got back on the road a couple of weeks ago. It isn't ready for prime time yet. I am in the process of fine tuning NA and will slowly phase in the FI system. I hope to bring the SC online this weekend, but had a 1.5 day slip here this week and may not have VVT tuned fully in time for that. Possibly next week.
the transition between SC, SC-TC compound, SC-TC twin, and finally TC was totally seamless on the prototype. You can get an idea by looking at my post in the "I want your spool data thread".
you are local to me, so we can meet up and I can go over the boost controller with you. I haven't had it on the car yet, but on the bench it shows a ton of potential. I am not posting detailed design stuff on the internets anymore, some of this stuff may be productizable, and related or not, Mazda patented an engine with a similar air handling system to what I posted in this thread like a year after I posted it. We are now first to file, so prior art no longer has any legal basis.
the transition between SC, SC-TC compound, SC-TC twin, and finally TC was totally seamless on the prototype. You can get an idea by looking at my post in the "I want your spool data thread".
you are local to me, so we can meet up and I can go over the boost controller with you. I haven't had it on the car yet, but on the bench it shows a ton of potential. I am not posting detailed design stuff on the internets anymore, some of this stuff may be productizable, and related or not, Mazda patented an engine with a similar air handling system to what I posted in this thread like a year after I posted it. We are now first to file, so prior art no longer has any legal basis.
#127
Whaaat? Mazda stealing ideas? I guess that makes sense enough.
Another one - looks like you are getting your turbo oil supply from the VVT solenoid source. What are the two objects in-line between VVT actuator and the turbo? filter?
Also, have you made use of the EGT per cylinder yet? Have you found that allows you to improve tune per cylinder? Meaning, are you seeing differences between them?
Another one - looks like you are getting your turbo oil supply from the VVT solenoid source. What are the two objects in-line between VVT actuator and the turbo? filter?
Also, have you made use of the EGT per cylinder yet? Have you found that allows you to improve tune per cylinder? Meaning, are you seeing differences between them?
#128
Tweaking Enginerd
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I am not going to claim that Mazda stole my idea. I am sure they have a bunch of really smart people working on that engine, and the work probably pre-dates my post.
I do pull oil from the actuator. Inline with the turbo I have a 40 psi regulator, a filter, and a 0.0935" restrictor. The block side banjo bolt is drilled out as far as I was comfortable going.
the EGT is up and running, and I am logging data, but I haven't gotten to that level of refinement yet in the tune. Cyls 2-4 are all really similar. 1 is lower by a decent margin. I do not know if this difference is real or not yet.
I do pull oil from the actuator. Inline with the turbo I have a 40 psi regulator, a filter, and a 0.0935" restrictor. The block side banjo bolt is drilled out as far as I was comfortable going.
the EGT is up and running, and I am logging data, but I haven't gotten to that level of refinement yet in the tune. Cyls 2-4 are all really similar. 1 is lower by a decent margin. I do not know if this difference is real or not yet.
#129
Tweaking Enginerd
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Anybody else have what I presume to be a processor overtemp shutdown?
westfield + ms3pro module + stock case + kick panel + carpet + ~4 hours of continuous operation + 90 deg ambient = MS goes completely dark ....
ahh the joys of doing stupid stuff to the car.
westfield + ms3pro module + stock case + kick panel + carpet + ~4 hours of continuous operation + 90 deg ambient = MS goes completely dark ....
ahh the joys of doing stupid stuff to the car.
#136
Tweaking Enginerd
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Nearly 3 years ago I made the decision to venture into unkown territory. My occupational responsibilities were transitioning away from an individual contributor focused on design to more of an oversight role at the corporate/site/team level. It was the logical progression for me, but at heart I am a design engineer. I needed to find a new outlet for my engineering bug. I had already optimized my M45 equipped 1.6 to a point beyond that which anybody has ever discussed that I can find. Having always had a passion for cars, going to the next level seemed like a good choice.
I wanted to do something different. I know that is not a particularly popular point of view around here, but my ultimate objective has never been the car, it has always been the project.
I created a 3 year plan. The car was due for smog in 12 months, so I divided the plan into 2 phases. In phase 1, I would design and implement a proof of concept that needed to pass emissions the following year. While the proof of concept included some radical changes, nothing would be done that couldn't be undone relatively easily to keep the car on the road. The trigger to start phase 2 was a passing smog certificate, buying me 2 more years of development time. In phase 2, I would rip the whole proof of concept apart, and build the real one.
I have spent literally 1000+ hours on the second phase of this project, hands on. I do not know how many hours my mind has been consumed by this project, but nearly every spare cycle has been invested. I don't know how many times I have been asked about what my objective is, and my answer has always been the same. It is not a performance goal, or to race the car, or even to drive the car. Since 2016, my answer has always been to pass emissions by 11/2018. As of today, I can say mission accomplished.
The sense of relief and freedom I felt when I finally got this silly piece of paper cannot be described with words.
I wanted to do something different. I know that is not a particularly popular point of view around here, but my ultimate objective has never been the car, it has always been the project.
I created a 3 year plan. The car was due for smog in 12 months, so I divided the plan into 2 phases. In phase 1, I would design and implement a proof of concept that needed to pass emissions the following year. While the proof of concept included some radical changes, nothing would be done that couldn't be undone relatively easily to keep the car on the road. The trigger to start phase 2 was a passing smog certificate, buying me 2 more years of development time. In phase 2, I would rip the whole proof of concept apart, and build the real one.
I have spent literally 1000+ hours on the second phase of this project, hands on. I do not know how many hours my mind has been consumed by this project, but nearly every spare cycle has been invested. I don't know how many times I have been asked about what my objective is, and my answer has always been the same. It is not a performance goal, or to race the car, or even to drive the car. Since 2016, my answer has always been to pass emissions by 11/2018. As of today, I can say mission accomplished.
The sense of relief and freedom I felt when I finally got this silly piece of paper cannot be described with words.