Idle VE Table Values?
#42
I didn't realize that was his site! I've been there before. Very helpful.
However, that basemap has "additional drivers" selected, so it is running full sequential? Are the settings not different for semi-sequential?
1/3 and 2/4 pairing? 1/4 and 2/3? Running adjacent cylinders in the firing order together makes the most sense to me... but I want to make sure Im not crazy.
However, that basemap has "additional drivers" selected, so it is running full sequential? Are the settings not different for semi-sequential?
1/3 and 2/4 pairing? 1/4 and 2/3? Running adjacent cylinders in the firing order together makes the most sense to me... but I want to make sure Im not crazy.
#44
So -340 degrees for "injection timing 1" means that Injector Bank A fires 340 degrees after cylinder 1 hits TDC on the power stroke (so 20 degrees before intake stroke begins on cylinder 1)? Then does Bank A fire again 360 after the first event? Does Injector Bank B fire 180 degrees offset from Injector Bank A?
#45
So -340 degrees for "injection timing 1" means that Injector Bank A fires 340 degrees after cylinder 1 hits TDC on the power stroke (so 20 degrees before intake stroke begins on cylinder 1)? Then does Bank A fire again 360 after the first event? Does Injector Bank B fire 180 degrees offset from Injector Bank A?
The fact that the injector banks each fire twice per 720 degrees and alternate A/B is why it is set to 2 squirts per cycle alternating?
Last edited by JaveStack; 06-21-2018 at 03:54 PM.
#46
As I didn't get any input on my questions about timing, I just threw cuation to the wind and started street tuning. I spent about 3 hours driving, stopping, using VE Analyzer, and driving again. By the end of the night my car ran great up to 6000RPM. I did not tune above 6000 yet. Given that, here is my VE map. Still seems wonky to me, but the car is running pretty well...
One thing I noticed today... I heard something "Click" (similar to the sound of a relay) somewhere in the car, and the car started running extremely lean. it bounced back and forth between lean and rich for a while, then it cleared up. This is the second time I have experienced this phenomenon, though last time I didn't hear the "click". Almost like whatever that is could be causing my rich AFR issues. If anyone has any insight into what I should be troubleshooting, I would really appreciate it. I attached my most recent tune file in case anyone is interested in taking the time.
Spark is supposed to be set "going low" unless you have mods like Jim's of BIP373's right?
One thing I noticed today... I heard something "Click" (similar to the sound of a relay) somewhere in the car, and the car started running extremely lean. it bounced back and forth between lean and rich for a while, then it cleared up. This is the second time I have experienced this phenomenon, though last time I didn't hear the "click". Almost like whatever that is could be causing my rich AFR issues. If anyone has any insight into what I should be troubleshooting, I would really appreciate it. I attached my most recent tune file in case anyone is interested in taking the time.
Spark is supposed to be set "going low" unless you have mods like Jim's of BIP373's right?
#47
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,734
Total Cats: 4,126
that chart is wrong, the injectors and coils are banked differently.
spark is 1/4 & 2/3
inj is 1/3 & 2/4
94-97 cams are:
intake: 5° BTDC 48° ABDC
exhaust: 56° BBDC 14° ATDC
If you're targeting end-of-squirt to be 340° -- that would mean the MS would time your pulse to stop injecting at 25° BTDC, or just 10° before the valve starts to open. which IMHO is a pretty good target to get all the fuel at the valve.
the click was probably your fuel pump relay turning off, which is not good.
spark is 1/4 & 2/3
inj is 1/3 & 2/4
94-97 cams are:
intake: 5° BTDC 48° ABDC
exhaust: 56° BBDC 14° ATDC
If you're targeting end-of-squirt to be 340° -- that would mean the MS would time your pulse to stop injecting at 25° BTDC, or just 10° before the valve starts to open. which IMHO is a pretty good target to get all the fuel at the valve.
the click was probably your fuel pump relay turning off, which is not good.
#48
I think I am going to add a permanent fuel pressure gauge. I will troubleshoot that theory.
#49
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,816
Total Cats: 371
There isn't something wonky with that VE map, it is indicative of something being fundamentally wrong in the setup. I would strongly suggest you get it resolved before moving forward.
I asked you earlier if you were using the DIYautotune basemap, and then pointed out fueling related configurations that are different. Hint hint the DIY basemap should pretty much be a known-good starting point.
I asked you earlier if you were using the DIYautotune basemap, and then pointed out fueling related configurations that are different. Hint hint the DIY basemap should pretty much be a known-good starting point.
#52
There isn't something wonky with that VE map, it is indicative of something being fundamentally wrong in the setup. I would strongly suggest you get it resolved before moving forward.
I asked you earlier if you were using the DIYautotune basemap, and then pointed out fueling related configurations that are different. Hint hint the DIY basemap should pretty much be a known-good starting point.
I asked you earlier if you were using the DIYautotune basemap, and then pointed out fueling related configurations that are different. Hint hint the DIY basemap should pretty much be a known-good starting point.
The very last thing you mentioned, which made a lot of sense, was that I was probably getting more squirts than I thought. However, I switched to 1 simultaneous squirt and it didn't improve my troubles... I think I have genuinely attempted every suggestion you have made? Plus I have tried every other combination I could think of, none really have an effect. Which I suppose could be a symptom on its own.
Spark is supposed to be "going low" unless you have a spark mod, right?
#53
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,734
Total Cats: 4,126
you're not wrong, but I'd never bother to wire up for semi-seq.
this is a good read:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...uel-ms3-86364/
tl;dr semi and untimed are essentially the same, except one gives you control over the timing.
this is a good read:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...uel-ms3-86364/
tl;dr semi and untimed are essentially the same, except one gives you control over the timing.
#54
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,816
Total Cats: 371
No the point I am trying to make is this...
Go to DIYautotune, download the basetune, load it on your ECU, see if that does anything different. If it doesn't, then you likely have a HW problem. If it does (favorably) then you likely have an MS configuration problem.
Trying to get something different to work (semi-sequential, alpha-n, no additional drivers, different dead time, adjusted injector fuel rates, ...) on top of trying to get the baseline to work is a tough row to hoe. Once you get the base working as expected, you can start making changes, like the semi-sequential or sequential. I don't doubt that semi-sequential has advantages, or Brain wouldn't have it in his tune.
Go to DIYautotune, download the basetune, load it on your ECU, see if that does anything different. If it doesn't, then you likely have a HW problem. If it does (favorably) then you likely have an MS configuration problem.
Trying to get something different to work (semi-sequential, alpha-n, no additional drivers, different dead time, adjusted injector fuel rates, ...) on top of trying to get the baseline to work is a tough row to hoe. Once you get the base working as expected, you can start making changes, like the semi-sequential or sequential. I don't doubt that semi-sequential has advantages, or Brain wouldn't have it in his tune.
#55
I will do that. However, one thing I don't want to leave to chance is the safety of my ignition coils. Without any ignition mods, can someone confirm I should be running spark trigger "going low"? I see that Jim's ignition mod allows you to switch to "going high", so I am assuming that means without a mod "going low" is correct.
#57
to fix several issues I found with the hardware setup.
Well, I loaded a base tune that had them set "going high" and ran at idle for a few minutes before switching them back... should I check the resistance of my primaries to make sure I didnt lose a coil?
#60
No the point I am trying to make is this...
Go to DIYautotune, download the basetune, load it on your ECU, see if that does anything different. If it doesn't, then you likely have a HW problem. If it does (favorably) then you likely have an MS configuration problem.
Trying to get something different to work (semi-sequential, alpha-n, no additional drivers, different dead time, adjusted injector fuel rates, ...) on top of trying to get the baseline to work is a tough row to hoe. Once you get the base working as expected, you can start making changes, like the semi-sequential or sequential. I don't doubt that semi-sequential has advantages, or Brain wouldn't have it in his tune.
Go to DIYautotune, download the basetune, load it on your ECU, see if that does anything different. If it doesn't, then you likely have a HW problem. If it does (favorably) then you likely have an MS configuration problem.
Trying to get something different to work (semi-sequential, alpha-n, no additional drivers, different dead time, adjusted injector fuel rates, ...) on top of trying to get the baseline to work is a tough row to hoe. Once you get the base working as expected, you can start making changes, like the semi-sequential or sequential. I don't doubt that semi-sequential has advantages, or Brain wouldn't have it in his tune.