Guy Pays Full Price for Miata - Then decides cycling is the sport for him
#102
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Well if going FI it will depends slightly on your setup. I am going to assume that you are going with a TSE setup, because it is the only track reliable setup. In that case you will have to swap back to stock injectors, pull out IC, pull off the turbo and exhaust, plug the oil feed line and cap the oil drain line. You can't just wire open the wastegate on the EFR or else it will destroy the blades, so it will need to come off. If you are using any other turbo setup on the market then you should be able to leave the exhaust on and just wire wastegate open.
I have been looking hard at the TSE kit, due to its reported reliability and the general awesomeness that is the EFR. I know myself pretty well, and if I have to do that much work every year to get a sticker, I know I will absolutely hate doing it. It is hard enough to get me to swap my factory cat back on the RX-8 every April. Full disassembly of the turbo setup... Ugh! This has me looking for the Easy Button.
For that amount of work, I could just buy an MK Turbo setup and replace it every year.
You *can* wire the wastegate open on the EFR, you just can't wire it all the way open.
As far as track reliability of turbo hardware goes, FM's is pretty solid in that respect when given the inconel studs. The Garretts don't spool like the EFR does of course, but I haven't seen any turbo hardware failures in my car on track since switching to the newer-generation FM hardware in 2008 or so.
I can say that it's possible to get a stock 99 ECU to set all of the emissions monitors in 2 10-mile drives with an FM turbo installed, wastegate wired open, light throttle and keeping revs below about 4000. Man it's slow like that.
--Ian
As far as track reliability of turbo hardware goes, FM's is pretty solid in that respect when given the inconel studs. The Garretts don't spool like the EFR does of course, but I haven't seen any turbo hardware failures in my car on track since switching to the newer-generation FM hardware in 2008 or so.
I can say that it's possible to get a stock 99 ECU to set all of the emissions monitors in 2 10-mile drives with an FM turbo installed, wastegate wired open, light throttle and keeping revs below about 4000. Man it's slow like that.
--Ian
Hey look! A fancy Easy Button!
#107
I haven't ruled out FM. The ONLY reliable turbo track cars in my area sport newer FM hardware. (I have not encountered any TSE setups yet.) The spool time of the Garretts doesn't really bother me, since I will always be above 4K RPM on the track anyway, and that is the primary focus of the car. Quick spool-up on the street definitely wouldn't suck, though. It's good to know wiring the wastegate open and swapping in the OEM ECU might work without changing the injectors.
--Ian
#109
I don't know what the final costs are of each kit, but just make sure you really price them out, and unless FM is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the TSE, then it's not even a contest. I'd get tse over fm even if it was up to 500 more, just based on the design/engineering alone.
--Ian
#111
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TSE has all of that except the intercooler and intake bits, neither of which are particularly difficult.... but definitely still something to consider.
For me, it'd be no contest at all.
For me, it'd be no contest at all.
#113
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Sounds like a party!
There are a lot of inputs to this equation.
Funny, when I made the decision to buy a Miata, everything seemed so simple!
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Last edited by Steve Dallas; 04-23-2017 at 07:29 PM.
#115
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I took the Tramp to the track last Saturday and brutalized her. My son drove her for 5 session in the novice class, a friend drove her for 3 sessions in the advanced class, and I drove her for 3.3 sessions in the instructor class. I would have driven 4 sessions, but I was black flagged for dive bombing a Track Dog Rotrex Miata in the corners that wouldn't let me pass. While I was being yelled at by the pit master, I saw my CEL come on, so I quit that one after only 3 hot laps. The CEL turned out to be some emissions BS or other, and it cleared on the drive home. I'll grab the code and address whatever it is later. The point is, the car had a very hard day with no failures of any severity. Tires are still good. Brakes are fine. There is no drama with this car. I think I'm in love.
There is a confession I need to make. I visited Track Dog a few weeks ago to discuss going to the dark side. The $900 in sales tax I would have to pay for one of their Rotrex kits gave me pause. Out-driving one of their cars on the track sealed the decision. I will go toward the light, err... stay on the light side. Glad I got that off my chest. I feel better already.
[Honestly, I can't imagine that car was totally healthy. His priorities were the opposite of mine, however. I did reliability (just don't mention that coolant re-route!) and grip first. He did "power". I killed him so badly in the corners, that his power was not enough to overcome. Still...]
One thing that has me slightly annoyed is, I can't seem to lay down any solid baseline lap times. The car is slow enough, that I have a hard time getting a clean lap without being passed (or occasionally having to pass). I'm taking her out again tomorrow morning to run the 1.7 mile track in the clockwise direction. The plan is to get there very early, in hopes that most people will be in church. I run very close to spec Miata record times in my RX-8. I'd love to know what this Miata can do, now that I have more or less figured out how to drive her.
Virtually none of the turbo decisions have been made. The plan is to begin collecting parts and install the turbo this winter. I have a lot of driver mods still to make between now and then. The only solid decision is to figure out which Megasquirt to get and start learning to tune well in advance of installing the turbo. That might even net me a few ponies in the meantime.
There is a confession I need to make. I visited Track Dog a few weeks ago to discuss going to the dark side. The $900 in sales tax I would have to pay for one of their Rotrex kits gave me pause. Out-driving one of their cars on the track sealed the decision. I will go toward the light, err... stay on the light side. Glad I got that off my chest. I feel better already.
[Honestly, I can't imagine that car was totally healthy. His priorities were the opposite of mine, however. I did reliability (just don't mention that coolant re-route!) and grip first. He did "power". I killed him so badly in the corners, that his power was not enough to overcome. Still...]
One thing that has me slightly annoyed is, I can't seem to lay down any solid baseline lap times. The car is slow enough, that I have a hard time getting a clean lap without being passed (or occasionally having to pass). I'm taking her out again tomorrow morning to run the 1.7 mile track in the clockwise direction. The plan is to get there very early, in hopes that most people will be in church. I run very close to spec Miata record times in my RX-8. I'd love to know what this Miata can do, now that I have more or less figured out how to drive her.
Virtually none of the turbo decisions have been made. The plan is to begin collecting parts and install the turbo this winter. I have a lot of driver mods still to make between now and then. The only solid decision is to figure out which Megasquirt to get and start learning to tune well in advance of installing the turbo. That might even net me a few ponies in the meantime.
#117
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That's the state rate. Counties and cities are free to tack on their own. Dallas County and the City of Dallas gleefully participate in that idea.
But... Now that I calculate it myself, Gary quoted me double. OK. You talked me into it. Rotrex it is!
But... Now that I calculate it myself, Gary quoted me double. OK. You talked me into it. Rotrex it is!
#119
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What price did Gary quote you in the first place? I have been there several times and been driven in multiples versions of the Rotrex car when it was under development, but I haven't been there since it was completed. Also, are you going to go with his mirror-image oil cooler too?
Don't get me wrong here. Gary is a great guy, and by all verified accounts, he makes and sells solid products. I kind of want to assume the Rotrex Miata I went up against last weekend had something going on with it. OTOH, we do say that performance driving is 80% skill, 15% grip, and 5% power. He may have had the power (above 4K RPM!), but I had the grip and maybe a sliver more skill? It's possible.
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Last edited by Steve Dallas; 04-23-2017 at 08:42 PM.