track day testing adds confusion to cooling issues
#22
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I was mostly talking about other track side advice i've had, the stuff from the TDR guy was mostly opposite what others have told me hence the OP and observations on cooling tests at the track.
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Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.
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i plan to fix things, and fWIW i didnt cut the bumper it was like that when I bought the car.
the problem for people new to miatas like me is that half the people you talk too or that look at the car say one thing, the other half says something else entirely and then people want to get pissy when you ask more questions and bring up something that was recommended by that other half.
the problem for people new to miatas like me is that half the people you talk too or that look at the car say one thing, the other half says something else entirely and then people want to get pissy when you ask more questions and bring up something that was recommended by that other half.
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What high-horsepower Miata prepped by TDR has consistently run 5+ seconds under SM record at every track in Texas?
Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.
Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.
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I was working on my ducting tonight so I decided to take some pictures for you. I have a reroute, and TSE radiator. I use the stock belly pan with holes cut in it to fit intercooler piping through. I then used the cheap plastic boards that political signs are made out of the close up the front and sides of my intercooler. It is not the greatest ducting, but it works for now.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/62486-track-day-testing-adds-confusion-cooling-issues-img_20121218_174014.jpg?dateline=1355874265)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/62487-track-day-testing-adds-confusion-cooling-issues-img_20121218_174902.jpg?dateline=1355874265)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/62486-track-day-testing-adds-confusion-cooling-issues-img_20121218_174014.jpg?dateline=1355874265)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/62487-track-day-testing-adds-confusion-cooling-issues-img_20121218_174902.jpg?dateline=1355874265)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/62488-track-day-testing-adds-confusion-cooling-issues-img_20121218_174909.jpg?dateline=1355874265)
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nice, thanks for the pics. i have some printed out of hustlers set up too. It's hard to tell, the front bumper is removed in those or is it not?
Also i may have done a better job ducting than i thought, you have better fit around the intercooling tubes, but otherwise its similar to what i did only i used roll plastic and some aluminum angles with rivets and duct tape.
Also i may have done a better job ducting than i thought, you have better fit around the intercooling tubes, but otherwise its similar to what i did only i used roll plastic and some aluminum angles with rivets and duct tape.
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The front bumper is not removed in those pictures. Also using cereal boxes, or card board of that thinness is the easiest way to mock up everything. I think I have about 5-7 hours total into my ducting work. Total tools needed were a box cutter and scissors.
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I ordered up the TSE radiator today, should be here early in Jan. While I have the old radiator out Ill flush the cooling system (the water in it looks like a mud puddle) and then do proper ducting while all the intercooler hoses are off. I guess i will have a 37mm koyo rad for sale soon.
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yeah i will order it, i wanted to do the radiator first and i need to replace the brake pads and rotors so i can get the car back on the track. I'll order the reroute once my wallet recovers from the purchase of the radiator and brakes. i wish i purchased one of the wilwood BBKs for the miata when they were on sale a few months ago for $499.
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Yep, you (and TDR) are missing something big: Thicker radiators do more than simply add water to the system. Thicker radiators add heat rejection ability which drops the equilibrium (operating) temperature of the system. Dual-row radiators do an even better job of this by significantly increasing the amount of transfer area between the incoming air and the coolant in the cores. A car that runs 230+*F with a Koyo 37 or a Koyo 55 will run <200*F with our radiator, because our radiator sheds more heat than the single-row Koyos do.
I don't know when this idea of "bigger radiators delay the problem" became popular, but it's total bullshit.
I don't know when this idea of "bigger radiators delay the problem" became popular, but it's total bullshit.
Also bigger radiators, aka larger water capacity, does delay the problem. It can be proved with the science of heat transfer.
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Thickness is not the only thing that matters and actually doesn't help that much as it has diminishing returns. The main factors of heat rejection in a radiator is core cross-sectional area, air speed, and water-side Reynolds Number. Also core geometry design plays a big role. Tube spacing, fin count, and fin geometry can make or break whether a radiator will cool or not.
The gains from going thicker are diminishing, yes, and it's not the ideal way to increase heat transfer, but it's the only option that large-market aftermarket radiators have, and there are still gains to be seen. We've proven this empirically through hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing.
Also bigger radiators, aka larger water capacity, does delay the problem. It can be proved with the science of heat transfer.