Tire Hierarchy chat
#41
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Thanks for the info Emilio!
The best way to figure out when tires start to fall off is to keep a logbook with ambient+track temperatures and laptimes. If you're just starting out, you can do a full year of track (4+ events) and autocross (8-10 events) on a set of summer tires and they'll still have a bit of stick to them, the tread might not though.
I budget every year for a set of summer tires because it's cheap fun. 15" wheels are awesome. (go look up a set of R-S3s/Rivals in 17")
I budget every year for a set of summer tires because it's cheap fun. 15" wheels are awesome. (go look up a set of R-S3s/Rivals in 17")
#42
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As for required/budget I get free takeoffs all the time so I guess they fit my budget.
#43
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That's interesting to me I'm almost 3 seconds a lap faster on used SM RA1s vs fresh rivals. Same 205 size on a 15x8. This is around Portland International. I'm trying sm6 takeoffs for this year on a 15x8 again and see where that brings me.
As for required/budget I get free takeoffs all the time so I guess they fit my budget.
As for required/budget I get free takeoffs all the time so I guess they fit my budget.
#44
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Rivals are the same speed as NT01s? I hate to question that, but I haven't seen it. I guess I also haven't seen the RR be much faster, if at all, than an NT01. I really wanted it to be. I don't have nearly the time on them that some of you do, though. Did you have to set the car up significantly differently to achieve that?
<shrug>
robert
<shrug>
robert
#45
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Thanks for the info Emilio!
The best way to figure out when tires start to fall off is to keep a logbook with ambient+track temperatures and laptimes. If you're just starting out, you can do a full year of track (4+ events) and autocross (8-10 events) on a set of summer tires and they'll still have a bit of stick to them, the tread might not though.
I budget every year for a set of summer tires because it's cheap fun. 15" wheels are awesome. (go look up a set of R-S3s/Rivals in 17")
The best way to figure out when tires start to fall off is to keep a logbook with ambient+track temperatures and laptimes. If you're just starting out, you can do a full year of track (4+ events) and autocross (8-10 events) on a set of summer tires and they'll still have a bit of stick to them, the tread might not though.
I budget every year for a set of summer tires because it's cheap fun. 15" wheels are awesome. (go look up a set of R-S3s/Rivals in 17")
#46
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They're going to start falling off, but it'll still be decently quick. I have 30 25-minute sessions and probably 40 50+ second autocross runs on my current set of R-S3s. I didn't flip them, so the tread isn't looking too confident in the rain, but they still stick when warmed up (including a 35F day at VIR-F).
I'll use them on the street until I order Rivals for this upcoming year (planning 6+ DEs and autox).
I'll use them on the street until I order Rivals for this upcoming year (planning 6+ DEs and autox).
#47
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Varies depending on the car and weather. At worst, they're equal. Cooler weather and/or heavier car, the RC-1's are faster. On our light Miatas, we need to have track temps under about 90* for the RC-1's to really out pace the NT01's. The RC-1's do last longer and steer better. That's saying a lot because the NT01's steer well for a hard compound HPDE level tire.
None of the Socal Miata HPDE crew but NT01's any longer.
The chart looks pretty accurate to me except I would put the Rivals and RS-3's on the same line. The Rivals are just easier to drive and last longer. Setup can be off a bit and still be fast with Rivals. RS-3's require a closer to optimum setup for the car to feel good. This is largely because you can bulldog a poorly setup car on Rivals into rotating without scrubbing too much speed. Exact same input/entry speed with RS-3's on the same car and you're farming.
None of the Socal Miata HPDE crew but NT01's any longer.
The chart looks pretty accurate to me except I would put the Rivals and RS-3's on the same line. The Rivals are just easier to drive and last longer. Setup can be off a bit and still be fast with Rivals. RS-3's require a closer to optimum setup for the car to feel good. This is largely because you can bulldog a poorly setup car on Rivals into rotating without scrubbing too much speed. Exact same input/entry speed with RS-3's on the same car and you're farming.
#48
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Rivals are the same speed as NT01s? I hate to question that, but I haven't seen it. I guess I also haven't seen the RR be much faster, if at all, than an NT01. I really wanted it to be. I don't have nearly the time on them that some of you do, though. Did you have to set the car up significantly differently to achieve that?
Rivals produce the same peak lateral Gs as the NT-01, same as the RS-3. They beat the RS-3 on braking and accel grip. Fresh NT-01 to fresh Rival, we're talking a couple of tenths in either direction. A little wind or a 10deg change in track temp and the difference is 0, so it's a hard A-B test to do.
RRs are much faster than NT-01s. They also get set up way differently - massively different tire pressure, different camber settings. If you offered me 225 NT-01s or 205 RRs for a race, I'd take the RRs every time.
#49
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If I compare two anythings (header, lubricants, cam, tire, wing, pizza) on a public forum without any disclaimers, you can assume controlled or semi-controlled conditions with comparable variants. Too many people around the world use the results I publish to make "informed" decisions. To publish anything else without disclaimers would be really irresponsible and it's just not my style.
So no, this isn't 225/45 NT01's on 9's on someone else car in winter against my car on 205 RC-1's on 8's in summer. Same everything except the tire model. I'm also including Maxxis own internal tire testing data that was shared with me.
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#50
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Car setup changes when moving between tires are a given. At minimum, pressure and small camber tweaks based on pyrometer data.
RRs are much faster than NT-01s. They also get set up way differently - massively different tire pressure, different camber settings. If you offered me 225 NT-01s or 205 RRs for a race, I'd take the RRs every time.
RRs are much faster than NT-01s. They also get set up way differently - massively different tire pressure, different camber settings. If you offered me 225 NT-01s or 205 RRs for a race, I'd take the RRs every time.
I've run them back to back with only air pressure changes and my data shows nearly identical grip. Maybe I'm just just running the "NT-01 programming" and not driving the hard enough, that's certainly a possibility. It's been six months since I've been on track and don't have my tire temp notes with me or I'd post that data, but I don't recall it being massively out off where I'd want it.
I am planning to do more testing in a few weeks, I guess I should just wait until then to ask more questions. Thanks for the information,
robert
#52
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?
If I compare two anythings (header, lubricants, cam, tire, wing, pizza) on a public forum without any disclaimers, you can assume controlled or semi-controlled conditions with comparable variants. Too many people around the world use the results I publish to make "informed" decisions. To publish anything else without disclaimers would be really irresponsible and it's just not my style.
So no, this isn't 225/45 NT01's on 9's on someone else car in winter against my car on 205 RC-1's on 8's in summer. Same everything except the tire model. I'm also including Maxxis own internal tire testing data that was shared with me.
If I compare two anythings (header, lubricants, cam, tire, wing, pizza) on a public forum without any disclaimers, you can assume controlled or semi-controlled conditions with comparable variants. Too many people around the world use the results I publish to make "informed" decisions. To publish anything else without disclaimers would be really irresponsible and it's just not my style.
So no, this isn't 225/45 NT01's on 9's on someone else car in winter against my car on 205 RC-1's on 8's in summer. Same everything except the tire model. I'm also including Maxxis own internal tire testing data that was shared with me.
thanks for clarifying.
#57
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Rivals produce the same peak lateral Gs as the NT-01, same as the RS-3. They beat the RS-3 on braking and accel grip. Fresh NT-01 to fresh Rival, we're talking a couple of tenths in either direction. A little wind or a 10deg change in track temp and the difference is 0, so it's a hard A-B test to do.
#58
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Rivals produce the same peak lateral Gs as the NT-01, same as the RS-3. They beat the RS-3 on braking and accel grip. Fresh NT-01 to fresh Rival, we're talking a couple of tenths in either direction. A little wind or a 10deg change in track temp and the difference is 0, so it's a hard A-B test to do.
I'm currently on R888s since they were so cheap.
#60
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The RC-1 is a purpose built HPDE tire, probably the best on the US market today. The Rival is a dual duty tire, also probably the best on the US market today in it's category. Decide which fits your usage.
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