Swap VVT into NA, or just pickup an NB2?
#21
NB2 all the way. If you're doing it on your terms just wait it out and get a good deal, I got a high mileage NB2 for $4,500 with a hard top. Roll bars swap any which way as long as you don't have a glass top. Worst case swap the top over from your NA. Or take out the soft top and run with a hard top only like a real man.
Most of the wear parts (suspension) swaps over from my NA. After parting out my NA and buying a bunch of maintenance items (front ball joints, outer tie rod ends, brake lines) I'm $3,600 into the upgrade. Still have to buy hubs & bearings and engine parts. Will need at least a timing belt kit and valve cover gasket. I have some of the radiator hoses already.
Haven't started parting out the NB2 yet.
Most of the wear parts (suspension) swaps over from my NA. After parting out my NA and buying a bunch of maintenance items (front ball joints, outer tie rod ends, brake lines) I'm $3,600 into the upgrade. Still have to buy hubs & bearings and engine parts. Will need at least a timing belt kit and valve cover gasket. I have some of the radiator hoses already.
Haven't started parting out the NB2 yet.
Yeah, all my wear parts are good. I think the only thing I'd need to do is have the NB rack depowered and welded, all my hubs/bearings front and rear only have ~15 hours of track time.
Hence my dilemma.
It's just a matter of if I want a hacked up '90, or a basically stock NB2. My desire for reliability is what is pushing me toward the NB2.
#24
Thanks for all the input gents.
I need to get the NC sold first since I just picked up the tow rig.
Then I'll probably work on pulling apart the NA, selling what few things may be worth it to someone, then begin the process of looking for a good deal on an NB.
Another reason I like this idea is I learned a few things building the first one that I'd like to change for the next one.
I need to get the NC sold first since I just picked up the tow rig.
Then I'll probably work on pulling apart the NA, selling what few things may be worth it to someone, then begin the process of looking for a good deal on an NB.
Another reason I like this idea is I learned a few things building the first one that I'd like to change for the next one.
#25
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Because, you know, VTCS is awesome
Cams are definitely not the same:
Originally Posted by 949Racing.com
BP4W 99-00
OEM intake cam .326 cam lift 248° seat duration
OEM exhaust cam .350 cam lft 244° seat duration
MSM/BP5A (OEM cam that fits the BP4W head)
OEM intake cam .349 lift 251° duration
BP6D 01-05
OEM intake cam .370 cam lift 242° seat duration
OEM exhaust cam .350 cam lft 244° seat duration
OEM intake cam .326 cam lift 248° seat duration
OEM exhaust cam .350 cam lft 244° seat duration
MSM/BP5A (OEM cam that fits the BP4W head)
OEM intake cam .349 lift 251° duration
BP6D 01-05
OEM intake cam .370 cam lift 242° seat duration
OEM exhaust cam .350 cam lft 244° seat duration
I/H/E mods on a healthy BP6D engine (10:1, VVT) BP4W intake manifold (VICS rather than VTCS) and like, Racing Beat header and ECU is about as good as it gets for readily available OEM domestic or OTS parts.
Yes, you could always stick a square top on the BP6D if you want to put $400 into a manifold, but is it really worth it? Yes, you give up .5 point of compression and VVT with a NB1, but I'm honestly not sure what that's worth in the grand scheme of things. No clue how "stock" OP wants this car to be. You pay the weight penalty for an NB but you get more power potential. For a superhpappyfuntimes track-only car, put the NB drivetrain in the lightest NA chassis you can find (braced up NA6 w/brakes) and win at power:weight. For a fun and tolerable dual use car, do the same as above with an NBx chassis. It's not rocket surgery.
If someone asspacks my NB and I can salvage the drivetrain, I'm doing the NA6 thing. Or fuckit I'm building an Exocet becausepower:weight
#26
^I don't mind eventually doing bolt-ons and a tune. If I do the swap into an NA6, I'd start off with all of that anyway.
Squaretop is already on the way. If I stick with the NA6, I'll likely sell it and just buy a JDM motor out of Dallas.
I think the main thing is thinking about dropping potentially another $5k+ and still having the NA, vs having something a bit cleaner, no hacking up for a Standalone, more room in the engine bay, etc.
Squaretop is already on the way. If I stick with the NA6, I'll likely sell it and just buy a JDM motor out of Dallas.
I think the main thing is thinking about dropping potentially another $5k+ and still having the NA, vs having something a bit cleaner, no hacking up for a Standalone, more room in the engine bay, etc.
#27
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Agree with all this, starting with an NB is definitely less work. Except the hacking up part, not sure where you got this. I had to cut exactly 2 wires to install my MS and they were to adapt the IAT sensor and extend the harness. I don't think I even had to do that, but chose to do it as I wanted to use weatherpacks as opposed to just jamming pins into the stock connector with electrical tape
#28
Agree with all this, starting with an NB is definitely less work. Except the hacking up part, not sure where you got this. I had to cut exactly 2 wires to install my MS and they were to adapt the IAT sensor and extend the harness. I don't think I even had to do that, but chose to do it as I wanted to use weatherpacks as opposed to just jamming pins into the stock connector with electrical tape
Maybe I should just find a '99-00 engine and run it off the crummy barn door AFM and 1.6 ECU so I can at least get back out on track.
#30
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Want torque? Get a [insert: turbo/diesel/roots blower/more displacement/V6/V8]. Generally a 4 cylinder engine is not a fabulous place to start when one is looking for torque, but I see what you are saying.
If the price difference was more than $1,000 between an NB1 and an NB2, I buy the NB1 and spend the $1,000 on
#34
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I know it's widely accepted the NB is a stiffer (and nicer) chassis; but I'm genuinely curious why exactly. What is so different on the NB that increased it's rigidity so much (other than the added bracing throughout the years that can be added to the older cars)?
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
#38
I know it's widely accepted the NB is a stiffer (and nicer) chassis; but I'm genuinely curious why exactly. What is so different on the NB that increased it's rigidity so much (other than the added bracing throughout the years that can be added to the older cars)?
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
might be missing some here...
#39
2. Makes no sense to me at all.
3. Would be awesome, have a feeling it will be even more than I want to spend.
I'd also like to build a 99+ engine and drop in the current car, but the prices for used engines around me is just insane.
If I could find a worn out one for a few hundred buck, I'd go that route.
#40
You aren't going to break even. We are talking about cars here.
If you hate working on cars it's a little hard to give you advice on what do to because "work on" is a very subjective term.
How did you blow the previous motors? Were they turbo? If it were me I would just sell the car complete for a good price and start from scratch on a new car (if you go 1.8 you will essentially have to modify/sell off your 1.6 stuff anyway). Usually for me, if I'm thinking about doing something the desire is there... and it sounds like to me you want a fresh start. Nothing boosts motivation like a new project. Who knows you might enjoy working on cars again.
If you hate working on cars it's a little hard to give you advice on what do to because "work on" is a very subjective term.
How did you blow the previous motors? Were they turbo? If it were me I would just sell the car complete for a good price and start from scratch on a new car (if you go 1.8 you will essentially have to modify/sell off your 1.6 stuff anyway). Usually for me, if I'm thinking about doing something the desire is there... and it sounds like to me you want a fresh start. Nothing boosts motivation like a new project. Who knows you might enjoy working on cars again.