Issues with NASCAR turns?
#1
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,303
Total Cats: 1,216
Issues with NASCAR turns?
Aside from the obvious distate
I'm all prepped for the Chuckwalla event, so I'm looking forward at the following event which will be at Auto Club Speedway, which of course willl be the infield with one half of the huge oval.
I'm wondering if the huge *** banked turn causes any issues for our cars that might be able to be avoided or combated with some sort of prep? Or is it just a matter of crossing fingers? Can't wait to run here, but I imagine it probably presents some unique abuse to cars...
-Ryan
I'm all prepped for the Chuckwalla event, so I'm looking forward at the following event which will be at Auto Club Speedway, which of course willl be the infield with one half of the huge oval.
I'm wondering if the huge *** banked turn causes any issues for our cars that might be able to be avoided or combated with some sort of prep? Or is it just a matter of crossing fingers? Can't wait to run here, but I imagine it probably presents some unique abuse to cars...
-Ryan
#3
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
The abuse comes from the 40 seconds of continuous WOT, all of which is in 4th and 5th gear. (Assuming you are WOT through 1 and 2) Run race gas, turn your timing/boost down, and be mindful of overheating.
#5
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
They're pretty scary at 130+. You need to have a proper line for sure if you want to push past ~115mph or so. I tried going into 1/2 with 320whp and 3.63s a couple of years ago and ended up needing a change of underwear - 161mph on entry, 159mph past the apex of 2, and then the front end washed out and the car wandered up the track about 2 car widths. Scared the **** out of me.
It gives you newfound respect for NASCAR - those guys are doing 180+mph through there all day long.
It gives you newfound respect for NASCAR - those guys are doing 180+mph through there all day long.
#6
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 5,155
Total Cats: 407
Running the Vees at Daytona we wouldnt even get on the bank, we would be wide open down on the flat part at the base of the banking. With the added weight of a Miata you would probably want to be on the bank, but at the bottom of it for sure.
But yah, like the others said, being under full boost continuously is brutal on everything.
But yah, like the others said, being under full boost continuously is brutal on everything.
#7
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,260
Total Cats: 5
They're pretty scary at 130+. You need to have a proper line for sure if you want to push past ~115mph or so. I tried going into 1/2 with 320whp and 3.63s a couple of years ago and ended up needing a change of underwear - 161mph on entry, 159mph past the apex of 2, and then the front end washed out and the car wandered up the track about 2 car widths. Scared the **** out of me.
It gives you newfound respect for NASCAR - those guys are doing 180+mph through there all day long.
It gives you newfound respect for NASCAR - those guys are doing 180+mph through there all day long.
#11
Ryan: what kind of gear are you running ? you might run out of gear.
with 200whp, you can probably do it flat. barely though. with 230whp, I had to lift for about a second before I got back on the gas.
It is WOT for a LON..........G time. watch your temp. like Sav says, run race gas.
work up to it. 1st lap, off the throttle for 5 seconds before turn in, then roll back on the gas immediately through T2 and T3. 2nd lap, let off the throttle for 4 seconds. next lap, 3 seconds. next lap 2 seconds, and so on. important part is slow down before entry, but be on the gas through the turn. pretty soon, you will be off gas less and less, and be flat through it, assume your car can take it.
you obviously already got inconel studs ?
with 200whp, you can probably do it flat. barely though. with 230whp, I had to lift for about a second before I got back on the gas.
It is WOT for a LON..........G time. watch your temp. like Sav says, run race gas.
work up to it. 1st lap, off the throttle for 5 seconds before turn in, then roll back on the gas immediately through T2 and T3. 2nd lap, let off the throttle for 4 seconds. next lap, 3 seconds. next lap 2 seconds, and so on. important part is slow down before entry, but be on the gas through the turn. pretty soon, you will be off gas less and less, and be flat through it, assume your car can take it.
you obviously already got inconel studs ?
#12
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,303
Total Cats: 1,216
Ryan: what kind of gear are you running ? you might run out of gear.
with 200whp, you can probably do it flat. barely though. with 230whp, I had to lift for about a second before I got back on the gas.
It is WOT for a LON..........G time. watch your temp. like Sav says, run race gas.
work up to it. 1st lap, off the throttle for 5 seconds before turn in, then roll back on the gas immediately through T2 and T3. 2nd lap, let off the throttle for 4 seconds. next lap, 3 seconds. next lap 2 seconds, and so on. important part is slow down before entry, but be on the gas through the turn. pretty soon, you will be off gas less and less, and be flat through it, assume your car can take it.
you obviously already got inconel studs ?
with 200whp, you can probably do it flat. barely though. with 230whp, I had to lift for about a second before I got back on the gas.
It is WOT for a LON..........G time. watch your temp. like Sav says, run race gas.
work up to it. 1st lap, off the throttle for 5 seconds before turn in, then roll back on the gas immediately through T2 and T3. 2nd lap, let off the throttle for 4 seconds. next lap, 3 seconds. next lap 2 seconds, and so on. important part is slow down before entry, but be on the gas through the turn. pretty soon, you will be off gas less and less, and be flat through it, assume your car can take it.
you obviously already got inconel studs ?
On the track I am running on wastegate at 7 psi - 185 whp. I'd like to turn it down even more for this track, and the wastegate is supposed to be 5 psi, but for whatever reason - maybe the really free flowing exhaust? - it isn't allowing less than 7.
I can run race gas without changing my tune at all? I would imagine so, as it just means there's more headroom before detonation but just want to check. Will have to save up some extra $$ for the event, that stuff is like $8 a gallon isn't it?
My turbo uses 8mm studs - so an inconel solution is not readily available. I've talked with Sav about possibilities of getting my manifold and turbo drilled out to 10mm for his kit, but as of right now, the ATP turbo hardware is showing no signs of coming loose yet. The low boost is probably helping with their longevity.
-Ryan
#15
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,103
do you know if any of your bolts are exposed inside the manifold/collector area? if not, you probably won't need inconel. my manifold only has 1 bolt exposed and thats the only 1 that has ever broke. the other 3 bolts are literally 10yrs. old with 100k turbocharged miles on them.
#18
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,303
Total Cats: 1,216
Yes, I'm taking the full point for front aero due to having a splitter, so I've been working on doing everything I can with the front half of the car to reduce drag (streamlining the front, splitter, front fender venting, diverting air away from front tires). Not focusing much on downforce since I don't have a rear wing either, but the rear bumper is also chopped to reduce drag as well. Had to ditch the rear diffuser though due to points.
#19
Yes, I'm taking the full point for front aero due to having a splitter, so I've been working on doing everything I can with the front half of the car to reduce drag (streamlining the front, splitter, front fender venting, diverting air away from front tires). Not focusing much on downforce since I don't have a rear wing either, but the rear bumper is also chopped to reduce drag as well. Had to ditch the rear diffuser though due to points.
#20
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,303
Total Cats: 1,216
Also, the focus of what I've done has been to reduce drag, and I've steered clear of creating too extreme of a front setup in terms of creating downforce that may require a wing to balance it.
Third, my spring rates are the typical 1.5:1 front to rear ratio, such as you get with a 9k/6k spring combo. The difference for me is I currently have a hollow RB front bar and a disconnected rear bar. I'm not sure what everyone else is running for sways, but I imagine there's some sort of rear bar. It sounds like it would understeer, but then a front-aero only car sounds like it would oversteer... I only see a hint of push in the tightest stuff, but I can compensate with trail braking/rotating with the throttle there, everywhere else the car feels very neutral, and as the speeds increase the car feels more and more planted - which I assume has something to do with the front aero... the stiff front and reduced lift and front aero seem to make for a really planted front end, while the front-rear bar ratio being so front-biased keeps the back end in line. The bonus here is no rear bar allows lots of suspension droop in the back, keeping the rear inside wheel down which is key for the Torsen.
Like I said, it's not a setup many have experimented with, but it seems to be working so far. Mostly, I'm trying to keep drag to a minimum - hoping that that plus a solid amount more hp than stock will help make up for the tire difference between me and the 'spec miata on roids' that are doing so well in Mod on NT-01's.
Just finished some spats to divert air from hitting the front tires last night, so will be trying those out at Chuckwalla.
But hey, what do I know?? I'm just effing around with stuff and seeing what works for me