HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!
#321
you really need to think about the application. remember when you remove items from a stock safety cell your saying "i know best" and throwing the money the manufacture invested into he trash. Sometimes if your changing safety items on an older car you are actually making an improvement. from personal experience i would rather be in a na/nb miata with a FIA seat over the stock unit (while still using the 3 point). the stock miata seats leave a lot to be desired for side impacts, even minor ones. for an example to the contrary on my personal street car (2007) it has lots of side impact air bags. on that car i would leave the stock units in, until i went full FIA race car.
__________________
OG Racing
Your Source For Motorsports Safety Equipment
WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
OG Racing
Your Source For Motorsports Safety Equipment
WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
#322
Sort of an old post, but as a passenger, I'd rather wear 3-points than a 5/6-point without a HNRS. Unrestricted head motion during a big impact while wearing a harness is something to be avoided at all costs.
The answer that you really don't want to hear is that your passenger shouldn't be wearing a harness without a HNRS.
The answer that you really don't want to hear is that your passenger shouldn't be wearing a harness without a HNRS.
#323
What I did
So after reading this thread and trying several different seats, I went with Kirkey Road Race 16s mounted on 2 inch wide 3/16th steel without the humps removed and I/o port braces. Schroth 6pt with the "street legal" latch and a Necksgen HNR. I added a back support pillow from Staples that velcros onto the seat. First track day with the new setup last Monday. I am definitely happy with the setup.
Had to notch the seat though. It is basically against the bulkhead, perhaps a half inch off.
Had to notch the seat though. It is basically against the bulkhead, perhaps a half inch off.
#324
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 18,642
Total Cats: 1,866
So after reading this thread and trying several different seats, I went with Kirkey Road Race 16s mounted on 2 inch wide 3/16th steel without the humps removed and I/o port braces. Schroth 6pt with the "street legal" latch and a Necksgen HNR. I added a back support pillow from Staples that velcros onto the seat. First track day with the new setup last Monday. I am definitely happy with the setup.
Had to notch the seat though. It is basically against the bulkhead, perhaps a half inch off.
Had to notch the seat though. It is basically against the bulkhead, perhaps a half inch off.
#325
Sort of an old post, but as a passenger, I'd rather wear 3-points than a 5/6-point without a HNRS. Unrestricted head motion during a big impact while wearing a harness is something to be avoided at all costs.
The answer that you really don't want to hear is that your passenger shouldn't be wearing a harness without a HNRS.
The answer that you really don't want to hear is that your passenger shouldn't be wearing a harness without a HNRS.
About 2 years ago I bought two spare helmets and HNRS for the passengers an our ride along cars.
__________________
#326
As for the humps, sitting on the floor I can't see well enough over the dash. Six feet tall but short torso. This set up feels just about perfect, given the space.
#329
There's no question that 5/6-point with HANS is the best solution, but 5/6-point without HANS is overall safer than 3-point without HANS.
--Ian
#333
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,104
I personally elected to jump to a containment seat after the BMW fatality at BW last winter. That driver was wearing 5-points in an FIA seat, but no HNRS and no containment seat. 110mph impact on the passenger door with a corner worker station. Basal skull fracture.
#335
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,104
#338
But if you *are* going to go out without a HANS, preferring a 3-point to a 5-point is crazy talk. You really don't want your torso moving around. You're focusing on one relatively infrequent cause of injury and ignoring all of the other risks associated with an improperly-restrained torso. Basilar skull fractures show up as frequent causes of death of race car drivers, yes, but that's because the successes in other forms of safety improvements in motorsports make them stand out. Saying you'd prefer a 3-point to a 5-point is like trying to say NASCAR would have been better off using 3-point belts from 1980 to 2001.
As for frequency, look over the list of race car drivers killed by basilar skull fractures on the wikipedia page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture
The only one of those drivers to die in a normal road course crash is Roland Ratzenberger (and even his was pretty unusual/spectactular). Gonzalo Rodriguez was the only other one on a road course (Laguna Seca, stuck throttle, he went straight off the top of the corkscrew and hit a wall at the bottom). All 16 of the other fatalities were at ovals, most of them super speedways. Half of them were Indy or Daytona. The factor those tracks have in common is high speeds in close proximity to unyielding concrete walls. This is not the environment of your usual Miata track day or NASA race (well, not unless you go to California Speedway in Fontana). The BW crash was a freak -- it *can* happen at road course, absolutely, but it's not common and the 3-point is going to increase your risk in a lot of other ways.
--Ian