HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!
#202
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this is a good question for Simpson the people that manufacture hans in the us. I think and don't quote me. if you want to get the unit re-certified Simpson won't do it unless the unit is sfi stamped.
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#206
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Yes, I guess even after years of internet experience and going to be 60 years old this year I can still give definition to the term newb. Sorry to have offended. Was just looking for anecdotal evidence. I know it's our safety and what price that but I'm closer to the end than the beginning so wtf. And since this is a thread I assume intended to educate the inexperienced, who might be too shy to ask said stupid question, I went ahead and put it out there.
#208
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When I think about Chinese-made seats being sold on eBay for $275 a pair shipped, it makes about Chinese-made steering wheels on eBay that you can bend with your hands, and quick-release adapters that release a little too quickly.
I have no direct experience here, I'm just saying that sometimes it's worthwhile to pay a little extra to get something you know is well-made from quality materials. When I rode, I had no problem at all paying $400 for a good helmet, and on one particular occasion, I was glad I did.
I have no direct experience here, I'm just saying that sometimes it's worthwhile to pay a little extra to get something you know is well-made from quality materials. When I rode, I had no problem at all paying $400 for a good helmet, and on one particular occasion, I was glad I did.
#210
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Yes, I guess even after years of internet experience and going to be 60 years old this year I can still give definition to the term newb. Sorry to have offended. Was just looking for anecdotal evidence. I know it's our safety and what price that but I'm closer to the end than the beginning so wtf. And since this is a thread I assume intended to educate the inexperienced, who might be too shy to ask said stupid question, I went ahead and put it out there.
Chinese seats. if you get a chance to put your hands on one of those seats i suggest you do so. with a solid mounted (lets call them) fake brides, you'll be able to grip the top of the seat and bend it almost into the driver seat with mild pressure. many people here that have them or experienced them will agree with me. in an accident this will give you almost zero support.
the idea of a race seat, that in a side or rear impact the seat will decelerate your body and give you more room to dissipate G forces. if a seat just folds over it's not going to decelerate your body much at all. for that i would call them dangerous. at that point i would take a well mounted kirkey over the Chinese fiberglass seats. that and i think tweed is awesome.
if you get a chance to feel those seats go for it, then take a chance and compare it to a well mounted FIA seat. the FIA seat you'll be able to put all of your body pressure into it, the seat won't budge, and the car will shake. that's a seat that will help in a crash.
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#212
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i did share that racetech video right? edit: i did check this guy out. it covers seats really well https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...9/#post1300628
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#213
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![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/161237-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-mym6zjv.gif?dateline=1454623764)
While we're at it, I've been wanting to get this off my chest.
I think it's a dangerous game to take Mobius's incident as blanket trust in the 6 point/airbag setup. The crash involved the front of the car, but it does not at all appear to be carrying the full momentum of it. The general velocity of the car still appears to be heading in the direction of the track, parallel with the wall. Had this been a direct head on collision at 100+ instead of ~75mph at an angle, the air bag would not have done much more absorbing, but the head would have had way more energy. You can see in Deezum's video - the air bag is effective when it's really engulfing the object that's heading towards it. For the head to get that far in Mobius's vid, it would've had to detach.
When we talk about safety, we talk about tested systems. The 6 point/HNRS/race seat is a proven and tested system. OEM is a tested system. Both of these systems' strengths and flaws are known. But one anecdotal case of a driver coming out unharmed from a crash with no data is not enough for me to trust a 6-point/airbag system with no HNRS.
#214
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While we're at it, I've been wanting to get this off my chest.
I think it's a dangerous game to take Mobius's incident as blanket trust in the 6 point/airbag setup. The crash involved the front of the car, but it does not at all appear to be carrying the full momentum of it. The general velocity of the car still appears to be heading in the direction of the track, parallel with the wall. Had this been a direct head on collision at 100+ instead of ~75mph at an angle, the air bag would not have done much more absorbing, but the head would have had way more energy. You can see in Deezum's video - the air bag is effective when it's really engulfing the object that's heading towards it. For the head to get that far in Mobius's vid, it would've had to detach.
When we talk about safety, we talk about tested systems. The 6 point/HNRS/race seat is a proven and tested system. OEM is a tested system. Both of these systems' strengths and flaws are known. But one anecdotal case of a driver coming out unharmed from a crash with no data is not enough for me to trust a 6-point/airbag system with no HNRS.
for naysayer that say the a hans is too expensive, once you crash with one you'll be sold that it's worth every pennie.
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#215
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the thing that i take away from that crash is the passengers air bag didn't go off. heck i've crashed a car and my air bag didn't go off, but my passenger bag did. Your going to trust something that is intermittent at the best of times?
for naysayer that say the a hans is too expensive, once you crash with one you'll be sold that it's worth every pennie.![Party Kitty](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/birthday[1].gif)
for naysayer that say the a hans is too expensive, once you crash with one you'll be sold that it's worth every pennie.
![Party Kitty](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/birthday[1].gif)
#216
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#217
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I just went back and watched, missed that page somehow.
So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.
And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.
Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.
And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.
Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
#218
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I just went back and watched, missed that page somehow.
So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.
And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.
Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.
And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.
Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/161239-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-80-mythbusters_cars_c6c2454fad1435c8fa76b25b7bd2ca488864532e.jpg?dateline=1454624550)
50mph vs 100mph impacts. this is when a cage is needed.
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#219
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Let me repeat that for emphasis: People die because they don't take safety seriously.
In California, we have a saying: You have to make several mistakes all at once in order to kill yourself in a race car. Dropping a wheel or failing to correct a spin is usually the last mistake you make. The first mistake is an eBay seat, or shitty seat mounts, or not wearing a HNRS, or wearing 4-points, or using a 3-point belt with a racing seat, or any number of other safety faux-pas. If you manage to not make any single mistake in the entire chain, you survive the accident. Why would you not give yourself the best possible chance of surviving the worst case scenario?
Do some of you not have loved ones you would leave behind? Do you not value your life at some dollar amount higher than the $137.50 you spent on your non-certified, unknown-origin, unknown-construction eBay seat that might hold up perfectly, or might snap like a twig if asked to actually do its job?
The entire point of this thread is to demonstrate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable when it comes to safety gear. In my educated, experienced opinion, $140 racing seats are not "fine" or "OK". I'm all for the cheap, DIY solutions that this forum fawns over, but safety gear is not the time or place, because unlike pretty much every other system on the car, you don't get a second chance to get your safety gear right. You need it to work, correctly, the very first time you're forced to use it.