HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!
#181
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when people say it's expensive i don't understand that. it's cheap, it's all cheap. yes there are some very cheap items, but if you take a step back and look at cost. if that seat saves your life how much would you pay to buy another one?
we had a gentlemen that ran with us at nasa SE. had a bone stock corvette. overcooked a tun and found a wall, hit his head on the wall. lived threw the initial impact, wen't home, took a nap, had internal bleeding in his brain, and never woke up. he had stock seat with harnesses, he decided not to buy a seat and used "dickey straps" instead. this guy was not broke he had many high dollar corvettes. i ask now.. after the fact. How much do you think he would pay for a containment seat, how much would his family pay? suddenly $2000 seams like chump change when the part your buying is tomorrow.
we had a gentlemen that ran with us at nasa SE. had a bone stock corvette. overcooked a tun and found a wall, hit his head on the wall. lived threw the initial impact, wen't home, took a nap, had internal bleeding in his brain, and never woke up. he had stock seat with harnesses, he decided not to buy a seat and used "dickey straps" instead. this guy was not broke he had many high dollar corvettes. i ask now.. after the fact. How much do you think he would pay for a containment seat, how much would his family pay? suddenly $2000 seams like chump change when the part your buying is tomorrow.
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800.934.9112
703.430.3303
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#186
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Based on this personal experience, seat + 6pt harness + airbag + helmet is still complete win for a frontal collision.
Edit: I will definitely be running with a hnrs in the future that offers lateral protection. But there is no reason to be concerned about using a stock airbag wheel with a seat and harnesses. The airbag reaches farther than you think.
Edit2: this was my green '01, no exploding shrapnel in this airbag.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160803d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h06m58s380.png)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160804d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h07m09s152.png)
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![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160806d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h07m26s404.png)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160807d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h07m34s749.png)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160808d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h07m41s485.png)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160809d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h07m53s730.png)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/race-prep-75/160810d1454209920-hpde-track-day-safety-gear-flow-chart-vlcsnap-2016-01-31-16h08m04s400.png)
#188
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Speed was high 4th gear (6speed), maybe 6500 when we touched the dirt on the outside of the kerb. Passenger had stock seat and 3pt, so not nearly as well braced. His airbag was turned off.
Edit: the next car will have seat+harness for the passenger.
Edit: the next car will have seat+harness for the passenger.
#189
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Yikes. I guess this is a good opportunity to bring up driver/passenger safety relationship since I don't recall seeing it in the thread. That car would not have been allowed on track where I run, and I believe for good reason. Passenger seat must meet driver safety standards if they are going to bring passengers or instructors. If the driver is driving at a rate that he feels it's necessary to upgrade from oem safety, then the passenger seat needs to be upgraded too to maintain that level of safety.
I won't make assumptions on the circumstances of your crash, but as an instructor, even if the organization didn't require equal safety for both seats, I would not get in a student's car if he had a full set up and just gave me the standard seat and 3 point.
I won't make assumptions on the circumstances of your crash, but as an instructor, even if the organization didn't require equal safety for both seats, I would not get in a student's car if he had a full set up and just gave me the standard seat and 3 point.
Last edited by dasting; 01-31-2016 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Autocorrect
#190
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This was a shameful day. I apex a bit early, power a bit early, and am running tires with less traction than the last time I was on this track. I am instructing this day, and the passenger is my student. This should never have happened.
We're only talking fractions of a second here. Be consistent, be safe. Absolutely do not put the outside wheels off when they are still laterally loaded.
Edit: after listening to it, 5000-5500 in 4th, not 6500. The aim solo was running but the data was meh when I looked at it, disappointing.
We're only talking fractions of a second here. Be consistent, be safe. Absolutely do not put the outside wheels off when they are still laterally loaded.
Edit: after listening to it, 5000-5500 in 4th, not 6500. The aim solo was running but the data was meh when I looked at it, disappointing.
#192
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Would not have been an issue. I'm 6'2 so the wheel is always in my way even with the stock seat. It obstructs with the Marrad seat only marginally more. Being 6'2 also means the seat is all the way back, giving me the most space between the wheel and the seat.
Egress under injured/mobility impaired/door won't open conditions wouldn't be much different than with the stock seat.
Other seats with different bolsters and/or halo wings, might be more of an issue. Can't see without physically trying it.
With the Marrad seat and the stock wheel I can use the full 3pt plus airbag system on the way to and from events, and use the harness while at the event. My wife is still able to drive the car.
This works for me. Different sized people, with different seats, a different distance from the wheel - that needs to be evaluated individually.
Egress under injured/mobility impaired/door won't open conditions wouldn't be much different than with the stock seat.
Other seats with different bolsters and/or halo wings, might be more of an issue. Can't see without physically trying it.
With the Marrad seat and the stock wheel I can use the full 3pt plus airbag system on the way to and from events, and use the harness while at the event. My wife is still able to drive the car.
This works for me. Different sized people, with different seats, a different distance from the wheel - that needs to be evaluated individually.
#193
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Yikes. I guess this is a good opportunity to bring up driver/passenger safety relationship since I don't recall seeing it in the thread. That car would not have been allowed on track where I run, and I believe for good reason. Passenger seat must meet driver safety standards if they are going to bring passengers or instructors. If the driver is driving at a rate that he feels it's necessary to upgrade from oem safety, then the passenger seat needs to be upgraded too to maintain that level of safety.
I won't make assumptions on the circumstances of your crash, but as an instructor, even if the organization didn't require equal safety for both seats, I would not get in a student's car if he had a full set up and just gave me the standard seat and 3 point.
I won't make assumptions on the circumstances of your crash, but as an instructor, even if the organization didn't require equal safety for both seats, I would not get in a student's car if he had a full set up and just gave me the standard seat and 3 point.
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WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
OG Racing
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WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303
info@ogracing.com
#194
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I respectfully disagree. As with so many things, pics or it didn't happen ... I have pics. In these pics, I am the driver, with a seat + 6pt Schroth enduro harness strapped in as tight as I could get and still breathe. The seat is almost all the way back, and at maximum rake, so I start off about as far away from the airbag as one can.
Based on this personal experience, seat + 6pt harness + airbag + helmet is still complete win for a frontal collision.
Edit: I will definitely be running with a hnrs in the future that offers lateral protection. But there is no reason to be concerned about using a stock airbag wheel with a seat and harnesses. The airbag reaches farther than you think.
Edit2: this was my green '01, no exploding shrapnel in this airbag.
Based on this personal experience, seat + 6pt harness + airbag + helmet is still complete win for a frontal collision.
Edit: I will definitely be running with a hnrs in the future that offers lateral protection. But there is no reason to be concerned about using a stock airbag wheel with a seat and harnesses. The airbag reaches farther than you think.
Edit2: this was my green '01, no exploding shrapnel in this airbag.
your passenger was in 3 point and NO-airbag. He wasn't hurt (guessing here, but you would of mentioned something). So I don't think impact was severe enough to say if driver airbag made a difference or not.
from picture, I also am not sure if airbag came close enough to decelerate your head. it needs to compress quite a bit to decelerate.
Last edited by bellwilliam; 02-01-2016 at 05:33 PM.
#195
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Thanks Bellwilliam for making this thread and thanks Mobius for posting your experience. I've been looking to upgrade my track day Miata (foamectomy and airbag) and yesterday had more or less decided on Marrad seats, Schroth ASM four point with a sub strap and a Necksgen REV. I was concerned how the Marrad might fare in an accident and now I know. Also, in the vid, it clearly appears that the bag decelerated the head at 20 secs in. There's a dent in it.
My inspiration for the up grade was my last track day at lime rock. There were two cars in front of me coming into big bend. The first car took an odd very wide turn in and the car behind him practically came to a stop. I braked hard and avoided the near stopped car but when I released my helmet hit the roll bar. Not a big deal in itself but the next lap I saw a 370 Z come over the hill in my rear view mirror, get sideways and crash straight into the inside wall. I've only done six events but the potential for things to get crazy quickly has become very clear.
My inspiration for the up grade was my last track day at lime rock. There were two cars in front of me coming into big bend. The first car took an odd very wide turn in and the car behind him practically came to a stop. I braked hard and avoided the near stopped car but when I released my helmet hit the roll bar. Not a big deal in itself but the next lap I saw a 370 Z come over the hill in my rear view mirror, get sideways and crash straight into the inside wall. I've only done six events but the potential for things to get crazy quickly has become very clear.
#196
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Is there any information ranking head/neck restraints in order of safety? Most it seems use the HANS due to it being accepted by sanctioning bodies, but there is the Necksgen, Zamp Ztech, and I'm sure others available. I have seen on here people mention certain ones provide more lateral support than others.
#197
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Hans Sport III FIA Approved Head and Neck Support Device Medium | eBay
I'm shopping for a HANS style device. I came across this seller in the UK selling the Hans III model for about $420 shipped. $200 cheaper than any of the US sellers. But it doesn't say SFI approved. Only FIA. Any idea why?
I'm shopping for a HANS style device. I came across this seller in the UK selling the Hans III model for about $420 shipped. $200 cheaper than any of the US sellers. But it doesn't say SFI approved. Only FIA. Any idea why?
#199
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Edit: nvm, it says $28.81 GBP import charges which is $42. Still cheaper than any US seller but not as slick a deal.
The no CFI cert still bothers me. Did they sell a first run of these before they got approved by the SFI or something?