Help me finish 400whp Miata track car.
#21
Thanks for all of the advice you guys are great!
It appears that the consensus seems to be that there is no such thing as a reliable 400 whp Miata "or that it is a rare thing. The whole reason I switched from racing high horespower cars (I ran a C5 corvette with 550 whp for two years) to spec Miata is because I hate working on cars while at the track and I do not have a crew.
My set up last year was a spec miata with a Mazda Speed Miata turbo (modified by Blouche) on E85. That set up put down 255 whp. That set up would let me hang with all but the fastest Vettes and Porsches (top 10%). It was a blast but I broke a rod at Mid Ohio last year and decided if I was going to build a forged engine why not go for more power.
Keeping in mind that reliability and low maintenance first (I am OK spending money on good tires) should I shoot for the 300-350 range? Is anyone else out there running a set up like mine at this power level happily? Can I do this with my current turbo 3071 and simply turn down the boost or do I need a smaller turbo or for that matter should I put on my IHI turbo that got me 255 whp with a 94 head on stock engine. New engine has 99 head that is ported. Would that other turbo get me to 300?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for the help.
It appears that the consensus seems to be that there is no such thing as a reliable 400 whp Miata "or that it is a rare thing. The whole reason I switched from racing high horespower cars (I ran a C5 corvette with 550 whp for two years) to spec Miata is because I hate working on cars while at the track and I do not have a crew.
My set up last year was a spec miata with a Mazda Speed Miata turbo (modified by Blouche) on E85. That set up put down 255 whp. That set up would let me hang with all but the fastest Vettes and Porsches (top 10%). It was a blast but I broke a rod at Mid Ohio last year and decided if I was going to build a forged engine why not go for more power.
Keeping in mind that reliability and low maintenance first (I am OK spending money on good tires) should I shoot for the 300-350 range? Is anyone else out there running a set up like mine at this power level happily? Can I do this with my current turbo 3071 and simply turn down the boost or do I need a smaller turbo or for that matter should I put on my IHI turbo that got me 255 whp with a 94 head on stock engine. New engine has 99 head that is ported. Would that other turbo get me to 300?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for the help.
#22
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-exhaust manifold
-knock control
-transmission cooler
-differential cooler
-bigger oil cooler
-overpowering factory LSD
-transmission failures (assume one 6sp/yr unless you run a $4000 Quaife box)
-more engine internals (BE gears, ARP main studs, SS/Inco valves all required @400whp)
-exploding CV joints
-significantly increased brake/tire/bearing wear
-heat management
Maybe $20k is a low estimate...
What is all of it? What is the limit of the stock crank? Has anyone ever broken one?
#23
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Thanks for all of the advice you guys are great!
It appears that the consensus seems to be that there is no such thing as a reliable 400 whp Miata "or that it is a rare thing. The whole reason I switched from racing high horespower cars (I ran a C5 corvette with 550 whp for two years) to spec Miata is because I hate working on cars while at the track and I do not have a crew.
My set up last year was a spec miata with a Mazda Speed Miata turbo (modified by Blouche) on E85. That set up put down 255 whp. That set up would let me hang with all but the fastest Vettes and Porsches (top 10%). It was a blast but I broke a rod at Mid Ohio last year and decided if I was going to build a forged engine why not go for more power.
Keeping in mind that reliability and low maintenance first (I am OK spending money on good tires) should I shoot for the 300-350 range? Is anyone else out there running a set up like mine at this power level happily? Can I do this with my current turbo 3071 and simply turn down the boost or do I need a smaller turbo or for that matter should I put on my IHI turbo that got me 255 whp with a 94 head on stock engine. New engine has 99 head that is ported. Would that other turbo get me to 300?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for the help.
It appears that the consensus seems to be that there is no such thing as a reliable 400 whp Miata "or that it is a rare thing. The whole reason I switched from racing high horespower cars (I ran a C5 corvette with 550 whp for two years) to spec Miata is because I hate working on cars while at the track and I do not have a crew.
My set up last year was a spec miata with a Mazda Speed Miata turbo (modified by Blouche) on E85. That set up put down 255 whp. That set up would let me hang with all but the fastest Vettes and Porsches (top 10%). It was a blast but I broke a rod at Mid Ohio last year and decided if I was going to build a forged engine why not go for more power.
Keeping in mind that reliability and low maintenance first (I am OK spending money on good tires) should I shoot for the 300-350 range? Is anyone else out there running a set up like mine at this power level happily? Can I do this with my current turbo 3071 and simply turn down the boost or do I need a smaller turbo or for that matter should I put on my IHI turbo that got me 255 whp with a 94 head on stock engine. New engine has 99 head that is ported. Would that other turbo get me to 300?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for the help.
A 400hp reliable Miata racecar is not rare because of a lack of engineering, it's rare because most people who have $20k to drop don't drop it on a Miata because they can already afford Vette tires and brakes.
#25
I bought a well built 400 horsepower Miata for $13.2k. It was a steal at that price, but was SIGNIFICANTLY more needy than my ~200hp FMII Miata. I still drive to the track, so an unreliable underthehoodbetweeneverysession Miata just wasn't what I needed. I was more than happy to go running back to my FMII car after getting zero track time at the one event I took the 400hp car to. Part out pending.
#26
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I bought a well built 400 horsepower Miata for $13.2k. It was a steal at that price, but was SIGNIFICANTLY more needy than my ~200hp FMII Miata. I still drive to the track, so an unreliable underthehoodbetweeneverysession Miata just wasn't what I needed. I was more than happy to go running back to my FMII car after getting zero track time at the one event I took the 400hp car to. Part out pending.
#27
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I bought a well built 400 horsepower Miata for $13.2k. It was a steal at that price, but was SIGNIFICANTLY more needy than my ~200hp FMII Miata. I still drive to the track, so an unreliable underthehoodbetweeneverysession Miata just wasn't what I needed. I was more than happy to go running back to my FMII car after getting zero track time at the one event I took the 400hp car to. Part out pending.
#29
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I was really afraid of building a turbo car with the bad reputation our cars had 3-years ago. Today, the turbo Miata is more reliable than the supercharged cars;l the secret is the thought and a holistic understanding of what it takes to race a car for 20-hours, all season long, and never put a wrench on the car. A good example is when people ask what a reliable turbo Miata costs, "price the turbo kit, then double it for items like hoses, cooling parts, and attention to detail among a number of items of which I've forgotten more than I remember.
#30
And, just to set the record straight, I said above that I only took it to one event but didn't get any track time due to a turbo with a bent shaft that locked up. Hard to say who is to blame there - Garrett? It was a low mileage brand new 3071.
Anyway, good luck to the OP. Hopefully he'll have better luck in the world of 400hp Miatas than I did.
#31
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Yeah, maybe I should have put "well built" in quotes like you did. What probably would have been more accurate to say is that it had "all the right parts" - Carillo H beams, Wisecos, a Quaife in a box waiting to be installed. My point was really just to say that a 400hp car is likely going to require more attention and tinkering than a 250-300hp car.
We've been doing R&D at 350whp for 18 months now, which means that we can put together a 250whp package and it will be pretty reliable. 400whp? Call me in another year or so, but bring an oversized novelty check and a ",000" stamp.
#32
You can get a reliable 400whp from an LS3...
An acute interest in making the grid for every session and finishing said session and still being able to drive the car onto the trailer at the end of the day under its own power has kept my goals in the ~275 range. The Corvettes and other high end hardware will pull on you a bit above 120mph but you will still be able to out brake and out corner them if you spend time and money on the non-hp half of the list.
An acute interest in making the grid for every session and finishing said session and still being able to drive the car onto the trailer at the end of the day under its own power has kept my goals in the ~275 range. The Corvettes and other high end hardware will pull on you a bit above 120mph but you will still be able to out brake and out corner them if you spend time and money on the non-hp half of the list.
#33
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I will answer what I know:
-Do I need to get upgraded oil pump as I was told the stock one will fail? I was told to get this form Boundary Engineering .
Yes
-Is my Turbo to large and if so what size would be recommended for my goals?
No. GT3071 is a fun turbo. GTX3071 will probably get you to 400 more quickly than GT3071.
-I still have a stock intake manifold and throttle body. What do you recommend for the upgrade on this if it is necessary?
Yes ARTech is making intakes and I recommend his work.
OK intake is not necessary. I would run knock control on ANY boosted miata over 180hp. Transmission/diff cooler? Why this? Are you running one? I haven't read of anyone running one on a miata
Oil pump gears, studs, valves aren't that much more in the big picture
Why CV joints sexplode?
OMG!!!! A garrett turbo shi the bed? Inconceivable!!!!!!!! This surely has NOT happened to anyone else in this thread!
Alternative I would recommend that I am doing is to build for 400+++ HP and then run 250 at the track. I ran a GT3071 for 3 years on a stock block at 10psi or so for 240HP (Ed's Dyno for you locals) and it was still quite fun.
Right now my car probably puts down well over 400 at 25psi and I'm going to tune for 40psi. For the street. But... for track day I will turn down boost to 17ish psi and drop timing...
-Do I need to get upgraded oil pump as I was told the stock one will fail? I was told to get this form Boundary Engineering .
Yes
-Is my Turbo to large and if so what size would be recommended for my goals?
No. GT3071 is a fun turbo. GTX3071 will probably get you to 400 more quickly than GT3071.
-I still have a stock intake manifold and throttle body. What do you recommend for the upgrade on this if it is necessary?
Yes ARTech is making intakes and I recommend his work.
Oil pump gears, studs, valves aren't that much more in the big picture
Why CV joints sexplode?
Alternative I would recommend that I am doing is to build for 400+++ HP and then run 250 at the track. I ran a GT3071 for 3 years on a stock block at 10psi or so for 240HP (Ed's Dyno for you locals) and it was still quite fun.
Right now my car probably puts down well over 400 at 25psi and I'm going to tune for 40psi. For the street. But... for track day I will turn down boost to 17ish psi and drop timing...
#34
That's the best way to be reliable. Build for 400whp with maps tuned to crazy boost numbers and then turn everything back to sane levels. Set the boost at 15 to 17, pull a degree of timing or two to back away from the razor's edge. Proper ducting and cooling, good hardware like inconel studs and a little common sense will keep it running. Just avoid the red mist that happens when you could catch that viper with another 20 or 30whp. Paradise is just a few MBC clicks away!!!
#36
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OK intake is not necessary. I would run knock control on ANY boosted miata over 180hp. Transmission/diff cooler? Why this? Are you running one? I haven't read of anyone running one on a miata
Oil pump gears, studs, valves aren't that much more in the big picture
Why CV joints sexplode?
Oil pump gears, studs, valves aren't that much more in the big picture
Why CV joints sexplode?
Tranny and diff coolers because they run hot as ----, nobody can keep a transmission in one of these cars yet, and I suspect that the fluid heating up to unreasonable temps is why.
CV joints explode because you're putting 4x the rated torque through them, constantly, the entire time you're at WOT. If you compare the amount of time spent at WOT, every 30 minute race I do is the equivalent of 50 1/4 mile passes, in a row, without letting the CV grease cool at all.
I'm not talking about 400whp on the street, that's easy as hell TBQH. 400whp on the track is an entirely different ballgame. IMO it's easier to put together a 400whp street car than it is to put together a 250whp track car.
#37
Well thanks again for all of the help. I think I have decided that I do not want the headaches associates with 400 whp track Miata and I will be contacting all of the vendor who helped to finish this build the only question now is if I want to stay in the 300-325 range is my GTX3071R going to big and laggy or can I keep it and turn down the boost? Or do I go for the 2871? Thanks
#38
Well thanks again for all of the help. I think I have decided that I do not want the headaches associates with 400 whp track Miata and I will be contacting all of the vendor who helped to finish this build the only question now is if I want to stay in the 300-325 range is my GTX3071R going to big and laggy or can I keep it and turn down the boost? Or do I go for the 2871? Thanks