Bp4w Built motor: Track Build
#21
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I believe its a few hundred more expensive than FM, but its worth the extra expense.
I have a really nice 2560 setup, but still dream of a TSE efr. lol.
also, not a big fan of FM Vmaxx, they came free with my miata, and i did not like them, dampers are too soft and mushy. sold them and swapped in my BC racing BR coilovers from my last miata, and much happier now.
#22
TSE kit is top notch for the Miata. solid parts, best on the market efr turbo, and great spool.
I believe its a few hundred more expensive than FM, but its worth the extra expense.
I have a really nice 2560 setup, but still dream of a TSE efr. lol.
also, not a big fan of FM Vmaxx, they came free with my miata, and i did not like them, dampers are too soft and mushy. sold them and swapped in my BC racing BR coilovers from my last miata, and much happier now.
I believe its a few hundred more expensive than FM, but its worth the extra expense.
I have a really nice 2560 setup, but still dream of a TSE efr. lol.
also, not a big fan of FM Vmaxx, they came free with my miata, and i did not like them, dampers are too soft and mushy. sold them and swapped in my BC racing BR coilovers from my last miata, and much happier now.
#23
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I may still go with the 2560 and an Fm kit because it will initially meet all my power needs. An EFR seems like a very nice option but it is more expensive at the end of the day. What kind of power is your car making and on what gas? As for the Vmaxx I'm not that into them either.
Thats fine, if you want to live in 2005 with a 2560 and old school fm cast manifold, they will work just fine.
i made 264hp 253tq at 17 PSI. 93 gas. and that is pretty much maxing out the 2560 turbo. dyno link below
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...p-253tq-95003/
#24
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I wouldn't compare this to TSE or FM because it's the new kid on the block and not track proven...yet.
But I would look at the Kraken setup as well. The manifold appears to be far better than FM's log design and it's a pretty solid pricepoint. It should help spool relative to FM though I'm sure TSE will beat it.
The big advantage is that it will work with an EFR. So you can run a 6258 with it with the money you save relative to the other kits and pick up the upgraded hardware as well.
But I would look at the Kraken setup as well. The manifold appears to be far better than FM's log design and it's a pretty solid pricepoint. It should help spool relative to FM though I'm sure TSE will beat it.
The big advantage is that it will work with an EFR. So you can run a 6258 with it with the money you save relative to the other kits and pick up the upgraded hardware as well.
#26
You just made a huge list of mods that you are doing to the car, like $10,000+ in planned mods, and a few hundred dollars for top of the line turbo kit is too much?
Thats fine, if you want to live in 2005 with a 2560 and old school fm cast manifold, they will work just fine.
i made 264hp 253tq at 17 PSI. 93 gas. and that is pretty much maxing out the 2560 turbo. dyno link below
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...p-253tq-95003/
Thats fine, if you want to live in 2005 with a 2560 and old school fm cast manifold, they will work just fine.
i made 264hp 253tq at 17 PSI. 93 gas. and that is pretty much maxing out the 2560 turbo. dyno link below
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...p-253tq-95003/
#29
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Looked it up. The MSM intake cam is 251 degrees and the NB1 is 248 and has significantly more lift than the NB1 intake cam (.349 vs .326).
Somebody's taken the time to do it right already.
#30
I stumbled upon a back to back test on an MSM once, but didn't save the source and now can't locate it. Convenient, I know.
However, here is a test from FM using an MSM cam and '99 cam back to back, showing 2-3WHP gain and faster spool with the '99 cam on an unaltered tune.
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=423014
If you guys feel this is substantial evidence I'll dig up the MSM test and start a new thread.
However, here is a test from FM using an MSM cam and '99 cam back to back, showing 2-3WHP gain and faster spool with the '99 cam on an unaltered tune.
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=423014
If you guys feel this is substantial evidence I'll dig up the MSM test and start a new thread.
#31
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That's odd. I would think that you would want to alter the tune to make sure that you were generating an optimal result for each of the two test subjects. You know, measure the best each one can give you. Otherwise you are inadvertently favoring whichever one the tune is more close to optimal for.
#35
wouldn't doubling or tripling the horsepower be worth more than 2s? Remember I went from vmaxx to xidas- and picked up time. I also went from NA to Rotrex and picked up wayyyyy more time.
I should have been more clear- going from $1000 dampers to $4000 dampers will not gain as much time per lap as going from NA to turbo.
I should have been more clear- going from $1000 dampers to $4000 dampers will not gain as much time per lap as going from NA to turbo.
Absolutely no question that this is right. Our 250whp turbo kit is worth about 5 seconds a minute on aussies tracks as compared to the same cars with stock power.
Most tracks are 80% full throttle or more. Going from 100 to 250whp is a big deal.
dann
#37
the build is not going to cost me anywhere near 10k as I already have a lot of parts on the car and the only thing that will be putting lots of money into is the motor . The TSE kit is very nice and if it’s in my budget I will most likely buy it but I would like to save money anywhere I can as I am not a millionaire.
If you think you can do this right for anywhere near 10K? I want to try some of what you are smoking....
You probably could, but you will end up buying everything twice....then how much have you saved? Just sayin dude.
I have the Xidas....Best performance value to be had at any price on the suspension side of things....Period
Your car will be vastly under sprung with those springs and you can't just go to heavier springs with that crappy shock as the shock can not control the added rates.
Heavier bars wont help either.
Do it right once, or buy it twice....Your choice
#38
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I may still go with the 2560 and an Fm kit because it will initially meet all my power needs. An EFR seems like a very nice option but it is more expensive at the end of the day. What kind of power is your car making and on what gas? As for the Vmaxx I'm not that into them either.
I got 241 TQ and 285 HP on CA91 at 10psi with the TSE kit. tons of head room still available.
#39
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I don't understand the back lash here. The FM setup is proven track reliable, is available off the shelf without extended waiting time, and meets this posters goals. Sure, the TSE with the efr looks to be superior, but if thems the goals why the push back?
Does spool even matter that much on track since you're never going to be that low in the revs anyway?
I thought that the EFRs started to shine when going bigger than the 2560 since the bigger garrett turbos most consider give up a lot compared to the EFRs and the better new ones cost the same or more.
Does spool even matter that much on track since you're never going to be that low in the revs anyway?
I thought that the EFRs started to shine when going bigger than the 2560 since the bigger garrett turbos most consider give up a lot compared to the EFRs and the better new ones cost the same or more.
#40
Spool/response always matters on road courses. It could be that it's more an issue for advanced drivers who tend to apply throttle earlier to balance the car on entry and mid turn. Being able to modulate torque early in a turn without needing to fight a timing factor allows for higher min corner speeds.
Higher min corners speeds are generally what separate data traces from intermediate to advanced level drivers. Same terminal speeds, same exits speeds but the better driver enters fast and slows down less. Precise torque control is a key factor. So a turbo that responds more slowly is intrinsically at a disadvantage to a faster responding turbo.
Watch my video in Bullet at Buttonwillow posted here and elsewhere. Note how low I let the revs get. Note how I add maintenance throttle early in most turns. To get that level of response with a traditional Garrett would mean making less power. The world has changed. Take advantage of those changes or don't. That's a personal choice but no arguing that old stuff works as well as the new stuff.
Higher min corners speeds are generally what separate data traces from intermediate to advanced level drivers. Same terminal speeds, same exits speeds but the better driver enters fast and slows down less. Precise torque control is a key factor. So a turbo that responds more slowly is intrinsically at a disadvantage to a faster responding turbo.
Watch my video in Bullet at Buttonwillow posted here and elsewhere. Note how low I let the revs get. Note how I add maintenance throttle early in most turns. To get that level of response with a traditional Garrett would mean making less power. The world has changed. Take advantage of those changes or don't. That's a personal choice but no arguing that old stuff works as well as the new stuff.
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