Begi Alpha Omega Kit - Feedback?
#64
Skills Needed?
I guess I am asking what level of skills are needed to:
A. Install the turbo "kit" - assuming a complete package is purchased.
B. Change pistons, rods, oil pump and damper. Upgrade clutch. Injectors and ECU.
C. Any machine work needed, pull the crank and replace bearings, have the rotating stuff balanced, etc.
I think I can handle A. B is something I can get help with, unless machine work is needed or the crank needs removed.
Does the engine need removed, or just change rods and pistons in the chassis? Not that it's a big deal to pull the block and take it to somebody to have the internal work done if you are going that far.
I have a tuner I found with a Dyno that autocrosses a Mazdaspeed. Once the parts are installed, he can help me get it running right.
This would be a winter weekend(s) project for me. I don't want to deal with major fabrication or fitting multiple vendor stuff together that might not fit. Am I expecting to much. I think I can handle the FM kit. Good instructions and a complete package. Are there any others out there?
A. Install the turbo "kit" - assuming a complete package is purchased.
B. Change pistons, rods, oil pump and damper. Upgrade clutch. Injectors and ECU.
C. Any machine work needed, pull the crank and replace bearings, have the rotating stuff balanced, etc.
I think I can handle A. B is something I can get help with, unless machine work is needed or the crank needs removed.
Does the engine need removed, or just change rods and pistons in the chassis? Not that it's a big deal to pull the block and take it to somebody to have the internal work done if you are going that far.
I have a tuner I found with a Dyno that autocrosses a Mazdaspeed. Once the parts are installed, he can help me get it running right.
This would be a winter weekend(s) project for me. I don't want to deal with major fabrication or fitting multiple vendor stuff together that might not fit. Am I expecting to much. I think I can handle the FM kit. Good instructions and a complete package. Are there any others out there?
#65
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I guess I am asking what level of skills are needed to:
A. Install the turbo "kit" - assuming a complete package is purchased.
B. Change pistons, rods, oil pump and damper. Upgrade clutch. Injectors and ECU.
C. Any machine work needed, pull the crank and replace bearings, have the rotating stuff balanced, etc.
I think I can handle A. B is something I can get help with, unless machine work is needed or the crank needs removed.
Does the engine need removed, or just change rods and pistons in the chassis? Not that it's a big deal to pull the block and take it to somebody to have the internal work done if you are going that far.
I have a tuner I found with a Dyno that autocrosses a Mazdaspeed. Once the parts are installed, he can help me get it running right.
This would be a winter weekend(s) project for me. I don't want to deal with major fabrication or fitting multiple vendor stuff together that might not fit. Am I expecting to much. I think I can handle the FM kit. Good instructions and a complete package. Are there any others out there?
A. Install the turbo "kit" - assuming a complete package is purchased.
B. Change pistons, rods, oil pump and damper. Upgrade clutch. Injectors and ECU.
C. Any machine work needed, pull the crank and replace bearings, have the rotating stuff balanced, etc.
I think I can handle A. B is something I can get help with, unless machine work is needed or the crank needs removed.
Does the engine need removed, or just change rods and pistons in the chassis? Not that it's a big deal to pull the block and take it to somebody to have the internal work done if you are going that far.
I have a tuner I found with a Dyno that autocrosses a Mazdaspeed. Once the parts are installed, he can help me get it running right.
This would be a winter weekend(s) project for me. I don't want to deal with major fabrication or fitting multiple vendor stuff together that might not fit. Am I expecting to much. I think I can handle the FM kit. Good instructions and a complete package. Are there any others out there?
Unless you go the built motor route which will cost you $3000-$5000, the stock MSM turbo can make enough power to blow the stock motor.
Switching to an FM setup or Begi A/O you will still be limited to the power the stock block can handle. You will get better spool and maybe a little more top end, but overall not to much of an upgrade to power wise for a large cost.
Replacing rods and pistons requires work done at a machine shop. It gets expensive very quickly. Unless you really want 300+whp, I would suggest staying with a stock motor for the time being.
#66
Good instructions and a complete package are to be assumed. Our habit of shipping in two seperate packages does not help establish the ""complete" notion. Despite four eyeballs, we miss a few.
FM can ship more timely than we can.
While an FM kit will serve you well, take a moment and examine what features and design quality you get from FM relative to the A/O. From chopping into the frame to rubber fluid lines, thermal management, air flow capability to sheer power per psi of boost, it remains my view that FM has not a single feature as well thought out and designed as the corresponding feature in the A/O.
Of course I would think so, I configured it.
I would strongly suggest that most fellows on this forum could examine the current FM and our old design and configure a system better that either one in virtually every conceivable feature. Many have put their efforts where their mouth is and built their own stuff and done a good job of it. With 50 + years of car performance stuff, I think it reasonable that I am also one of those fellows.
Corky
FM can ship more timely than we can.
While an FM kit will serve you well, take a moment and examine what features and design quality you get from FM relative to the A/O. From chopping into the frame to rubber fluid lines, thermal management, air flow capability to sheer power per psi of boost, it remains my view that FM has not a single feature as well thought out and designed as the corresponding feature in the A/O.
Of course I would think so, I configured it.
I would strongly suggest that most fellows on this forum could examine the current FM and our old design and configure a system better that either one in virtually every conceivable feature. Many have put their efforts where their mouth is and built their own stuff and done a good job of it. With 50 + years of car performance stuff, I think it reasonable that I am also one of those fellows.
Corky
#68
Corky,
The original purpose of this thread was to gather info on the alternatives to the FMII or Big Enchilada. I am open to options. I didn't get any feedback from anyone with an A-O installed. I respect your knowledge and experience.
I am interested in the A-O and just need more info and maybe some reassurance that it's a winter garage project and not something I need to pay to have installed. Looking forward to further discussions. Maybe this should be a phone conversation?
The original purpose of this thread was to gather info on the alternatives to the FMII or Big Enchilada. I am open to options. I didn't get any feedback from anyone with an A-O installed. I respect your knowledge and experience.
I am interested in the A-O and just need more info and maybe some reassurance that it's a winter garage project and not something I need to pay to have installed. Looking forward to further discussions. Maybe this should be a phone conversation?
#72
It is all new stuff. Started shipping about last July.... I think. Perhaps 15 shipped.
Installed another 6 here in SA. So far, so good.
A few changes from the original A/O: revised the CO tube. Insulated the TB inlet tube.
Am making a casting for the compressor inlet when the meter is deleted.
corky
Installed another 6 here in SA. So far, so good.
A few changes from the original A/O: revised the CO tube. Insulated the TB inlet tube.
Am making a casting for the compressor inlet when the meter is deleted.
corky
#73
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Shuiend has given you the correct answer a number of times.
Buy a good ECU (MSPNP-Pro most recommended by those here).
Install larger injectors (you'll need these anyway) and larger intercooler (which you already have) as well as your exhaust.
Turn up the boost.
If you're not happy, build the motor and go from there. The stock MSM turbo setup is not optimal, but it is plenty capable. Unless you just want to throw crazy money at the build....
Buy a good ECU (MSPNP-Pro most recommended by those here).
Install larger injectors (you'll need these anyway) and larger intercooler (which you already have) as well as your exhaust.
Turn up the boost.
If you're not happy, build the motor and go from there. The stock MSM turbo setup is not optimal, but it is plenty capable. Unless you just want to throw crazy money at the build....
#74
mkturbo.com
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 15,189
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Shuiend has given you the correct answer a number of times.
Buy a good ECU (MSPNP-Pro most recommended by those here).
Install larger injectors (you'll need these anyway) and larger intercooler (which you already have) as well as your exhaust.
Turn up the boost.
If you're not happy, build the motor and go from there. The stock MSM turbo setup is not optimal, but it is plenty capable. Unless you just want to throw crazy money at the build....
Buy a good ECU (MSPNP-Pro most recommended by those here).
Install larger injectors (you'll need these anyway) and larger intercooler (which you already have) as well as your exhaust.
Turn up the boost.
If you're not happy, build the motor and go from there. The stock MSM turbo setup is not optimal, but it is plenty capable. Unless you just want to throw crazy money at the build....
#75
I don't want to waste money. My impression was that I at least needed to do intake and exhaust such as the LE to go with the ECU and injectors. Incorrect?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
#76
I don't want to waste money. My impression was that I at least needed to do intake and exhaust such as the LE to go with the ECU and injectors. Incorrect?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
2. My MS and injectors were around $1,100. I don't know where you're getting your parts from but you're overpaying
You need to do more research before you spend a penny anywhere
#78
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Location: Charleston SC
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I don't want to waste money. My impression was that I at least needed to do intake and exhaust such as the LE to go with the ECU and injectors. Incorrect?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
The LE goes for $2k. The MSPNP and injectors is another $1800, or the BE for $4K. The full FMII is $5395 + exhaust.
So, $4K and stock turbo or $6K and get a Garrett. Then the internals can come later if I feel the need.
What's wrong with this math?
What we are all trying to say is that you can make the MSM turbo a decent street setup without spending as much as you are. Here is a post that shows what the MSPNP-Pro will do to an MSM.
Start with the MSPNP-Pro and the flow force injectors. Get used to tuning the MS and get the car working well. Then decide if you are happy with the performance, or if you really do need more. If you need more at that time, then look at adding a 3" exhaust, bigger IC, better intake.
Doing the additional things should just about max out what you can make on a stock motor. If you end up not satisfied then you can look into building a motor and changing the complete turbo setup.
#79
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You shouldn't consider the full FMII, because MS > Hydra.
The given is MSPNP-Pro + Flow Force injectors = $1500
Since you need these two no matter what direction you would go, I would go for these first. Turn up the boost, get a good tune, and see what you think. Get an intercooler for $100 on ebay, and a piping kit for another $100. I'm not sure how the factory intake works on the MSM's, and if that's easy to recreate for cheap. Then you need to find a cheap 3" exhaust. Maybe Artech has a cheaper solution, or maybe you can just go to FM for that. Either way, sourcing your own intercooler solution will be much cheaper than the LE kit.
The bottom line is, the reason that there's little difference between $4k stock turbo and $6k Garrett, is because $1800 is a little overestimation, and the LE is overpriced for what it is. Another good option if you want the Garrett is the FMII no electronics, plus MSPNP Pro and Flow Force injectors. That totals to $4500.
The given is MSPNP-Pro + Flow Force injectors = $1500
Since you need these two no matter what direction you would go, I would go for these first. Turn up the boost, get a good tune, and see what you think. Get an intercooler for $100 on ebay, and a piping kit for another $100. I'm not sure how the factory intake works on the MSM's, and if that's easy to recreate for cheap. Then you need to find a cheap 3" exhaust. Maybe Artech has a cheaper solution, or maybe you can just go to FM for that. Either way, sourcing your own intercooler solution will be much cheaper than the LE kit.
The bottom line is, the reason that there's little difference between $4k stock turbo and $6k Garrett, is because $1800 is a little overestimation, and the LE is overpriced for what it is. Another good option if you want the Garrett is the FMII no electronics, plus MSPNP Pro and Flow Force injectors. That totals to $4500.
#80
Guys,
The guy wants to spend money on a proper setup. He's not trying to ghetto-rig anything like 99% of the silly kids that join these days. Why would we talk him out of it?
If he was like "omg gaiz I wann install powercard + obxR tacoburrito maniford and run ALLOFIT for d0r1fto" he'd need to be hazed.
He's wants to install a good setup, have it tuned, and never touch again.
I'll repeat what I said in response to his PM: get the fm msm upgrade or non-electronics kit. Get proper fueling and engine management of your favorite flavor (or your tuners). Install, have tuned, enjoy.
The guy wants to spend money on a proper setup. He's not trying to ghetto-rig anything like 99% of the silly kids that join these days. Why would we talk him out of it?
If he was like "omg gaiz I wann install powercard + obxR tacoburrito maniford and run ALLOFIT for d0r1fto" he'd need to be hazed.
He's wants to install a good setup, have it tuned, and never touch again.
I'll repeat what I said in response to his PM: get the fm msm upgrade or non-electronics kit. Get proper fueling and engine management of your favorite flavor (or your tuners). Install, have tuned, enjoy.