glenjamindle

I'm so confused. I crashed my 95 running an MS2PNP. Swapped entire drivetrain, all electronics, supporting mods, etc into a 96 shell and put everything on an MS3PNP. It runs like complete garbage now on the same tune.

I took the tune from the MS2 and loaded it into the MS3 and got 117 errors. Tried starting the car and it ran like trash. Tried a bunch of stuff and couldn't get it to idle. Went to DIY Auto Tune and downloaded a fresh base map. Got it to idle, but it was on the lean side. Could not get it to settle at 14.7. Fueling at idle is around 130 and AFR's settle around 15.2

I then 'compared tune' to my previous well running tune from the 95 and imported only the AFR, VE, and timing tables. Ran like crap, but I change VE idle cells to 130 again and can get it around 15.2 AFR

The only mechanical changes I made during the swap were:
MS2 to MS3
Added FM fuel pump wire kit (fuse and relay right from battery)
Put all vacuum lines into a vacuum manifold
Replaced all intercooler aluminum piping with silicone
FD RX7 alternator and all battery/starter/alternator cables replaced

Is there something I'm missing swapping ECU's or is this mechanical?

redursidae

We’ll need a log and your current tune to check what could be wrong. My initial thoughts are that something is wrong with your MAP sensor/line, a vacuum leak, or something wrong with fuel pressure. Why are you using vacuum manifold? Sounds like you’re forced inducted, so you must have a plenum?

edit: don’t load an MS2 msq into MS3 (or vice versa). There are enough different settings to cause issues. Loading a VE, AFR, or ignition table should be fine, but verify nothing looks weird after.

glenjamindle

Datalog from when I was able to get it to idle attached. I'm not able to pull my tune at the moment. Will update later.

I've checked for vacuum leaks with a smoke machine. There were none.
Fuel pressure at idle was 34 and 44 with a throttle blip.
I ran my brake booster line to a vacuum manifold and returned with a line to the rear of the skunk intake. All vacuum lines (BOV, FPR, etc) are from the manifold. I converted my cooling system to AN20 and ran the upper reroute hose between the fuel rail and intake manifold to clean things up a bit.

I did call DIY Auto tune and they mentioned that MS2 files are not compatible with MS3 files because different algorithms and I would need a complete retune. In my previous post I mentioned that I downloaded a fresh base map and still couldn't get it to idle. I'm considering finding an MS2 for a 96, loading my original tune to verify nothing mechanical is going on.

redursidae

will still need to see your tune to verify, but nothing is jumping out at me from the log. Before purchasing another MS2, you should run a vacuum line from the plenum directly to the MAP sensor, and another directly to the FPR reference. Also make sure your tune has the fuel settings configured to the correct pressure and system type (vacuum referenced).

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Can't tell you without the tune

offatooth

I'm just over an hour away and have been trying to help get things running. Good to see sixshooter and others in this thread.
I agree no way to load MS2 tune into MS3, so we will need to more or less start from scratch. I made a fresh tune from the MS3 96/97 base map, importing some table info from the pre-crash tune.

The attached tune has cold cranking PW of about 7ms, which checks out from a log from the MS2, however he wasn't able to get it to light off. I am thinking it needs more attempts (pumping throttle, battery fully charged etc.) so we can get more data and a steady AFR reading.
During previous attempts (before I made this tune) when we were able to get a steady idle, AFR reading was full lean. Adding fuel starting to get AFR on the charts but you could tell she was pig rich at that point. New O2 sensor, same result.
So question is why were the AFR readings so different with similar Ign. timing, injector PW, and IAC dc?
You can see in the screenshot from his log that soon after a VE1 change causing inj PW from 3ms to 1.75ms AFR goes full lean. The car was idling on ms2 at 1.75ms, similar IAC dc, ign timing and MAP. So why the need for more fuel? Possibly still an issue with the WBO2?
He is running DW1000 injectors. Since then I put in the dead times from their website, but I hear there is some question as to what it should actually be.
I've also smoothed Timing table to be 12* until 2k rpm for now so we (hopefully) can get rid of those oscillations.

Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. I still think we need to get a start on this fresh MS3 tune and see from there.

Rrrracer

Maybe deadtime and injector characterization? Without seeing the original MS2 tune (and injector data) it will be impossible to determine why the same PW is producing different results with the MS3.

Here is the characterization data I have for the ID1000s. The tune provided has 1.0ms DT, different multipliers and small pulsewidths are not entered. HTH!

offatooth

Thanks Racer,
Copied the injector setting you provided. Appreciate that. Even more reason now to get a start on the new tune evolution and go from there.
I know looking at PW now vs before isn't perfect, but we had to more than double the VE table to get AFR reading. I did look at an old log at some point and just wanted to see if the actual injector output was similar so we could determine if it was something in the MS3 tune commanding an unexpected PW, but it doesn't seem to be that.
Anyway I think the ball is in our court now to get a start in and see how she idles, but any other input is always welcome. Will update when he gets back to try it!

*edit: Just realized the setting you provided are ID1000's. We are using DW1000's.
I pulled the data from here:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...f?v=1618947478
The info isn't as pretty as what ID gives. They do provide a "mass deviation" in the low pulse non linear range, but I am not sure if it is as simple as using that to factor in actual small pulse width settings. Regardless the MS2 didn't have small pulse width settings.

redursidae

The tune you attached has Idle VE turned on, and the table is in the 45-50 range, and kicks in at 100F which correlates with the increased AFR in your log. Try to turn Idle VE off and test again.

Rrrracer

Gahhh LOL, my reading comprehension is suffering in my old age. DW1000s... I have nothing. The characterization data DW provides for their injectors has been notoriously unreliable in these forums and elsewhere. I usually test them out on the bench or (even better IMO) live on the car to get deadtime in the ballpark. Linear range in the summary linked to starts at 2.4ms so.... good luck with small PW data LOL. Hopefully the voltage offset data is accurate.

Same as @redursidae, I thought (and posted) that your issue was having Idle VE enabled, but when I re-read your post I realized that you were aware of the duty cycle change and that the real question was why wasn't it responding as it was before with the MS2 tune, not the reason behind why the DC was lower.