Anyone interested in built heads?
#1
Want fries with that?
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Anyone interested in built heads?
I was thinking about this today.
By "built", I mean +1mm valve job, integral cams (duration/lift is up to buyer), stronger valve springs and a port and polish.
I may sound a bit of an idiot, and people will obviously want proof that I know what I'm doing and that they're worth it, I figure I can have one built by next summer to bolt on, dyno prove, and run it for a couple thousand miles to prove that it'll hold up.
Price would be around 1,400-1,500 dollars and would take about a month to build.
Given that I could prove it over the test of time and on the dyno, would anyone be interested in purchasing one?
By "built", I mean +1mm valve job, integral cams (duration/lift is up to buyer), stronger valve springs and a port and polish.
I may sound a bit of an idiot, and people will obviously want proof that I know what I'm doing and that they're worth it, I figure I can have one built by next summer to bolt on, dyno prove, and run it for a couple thousand miles to prove that it'll hold up.
Price would be around 1,400-1,500 dollars and would take about a month to build.
Given that I could prove it over the test of time and on the dyno, would anyone be interested in purchasing one?
#4
Want fries with that?
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If and when I decide to start making these it would be about a month to a month and a half, simply because the cams take 3-4 weeks to be ground.
#6
Custom cams are like $450 at www.elgincams.com
He makes you fill out a form and asks for flow numbers if you have them.
He makes you fill out a form and asks for flow numbers if you have them.
#8
I'm interested, but without custom cams or +1 valves.
I simply want stronger valve springs and (possibly solid) lifters, as well as a badass port and polish...purpose being to support a slightly higher redline without power dropping off. Not shooting for the moon...just don't want power to taper off before normal redline.
EDIT: btw, this would be for a 1.6L head if it makes a difference. I recently saw the HKS 1.6 cams go for a about $350, and if it came time for cams would likely go that route before a custom grind. I don't see a huge reason to go for cams on a turbo car for my goals, and would definitely forgo it if it drastically dropped the price.
I simply want stronger valve springs and (possibly solid) lifters, as well as a badass port and polish...purpose being to support a slightly higher redline without power dropping off. Not shooting for the moon...just don't want power to taper off before normal redline.
EDIT: btw, this would be for a 1.6L head if it makes a difference. I recently saw the HKS 1.6 cams go for a about $350, and if it came time for cams would likely go that route before a custom grind. I don't see a huge reason to go for cams on a turbo car for my goals, and would definitely forgo it if it drastically dropped the price.
#9
Duckie Elgin's charge is for regrinds on stock cams so he makes the base circle smaller.
I had him do my 97 M3 with hydraulic lifters and gains were very noticeable.
I haven't asked him about what supporting mods are needed on a 99+ head (i.e. need thicker shim, does it need shim under bucket to do that).
gospeed81, the tapering off of torque is a function of the cams, less so of lack of head flow. You need a later closing intake valve - either with more duration, or by retarding the intake some.
Re: slightly higher redline - Rebello Racing tell me on a 99+ that the springs can be shimmed up a little bit to support a slightly higher redline.
I had him do my 97 M3 with hydraulic lifters and gains were very noticeable.
I haven't asked him about what supporting mods are needed on a 99+ head (i.e. need thicker shim, does it need shim under bucket to do that).
gospeed81, the tapering off of torque is a function of the cams, less so of lack of head flow. You need a later closing intake valve - either with more duration, or by retarding the intake some.
Re: slightly higher redline - Rebello Racing tell me on a 99+ that the springs can be shimmed up a little bit to support a slightly higher redline.
#10
I've heard (recently here) that the +1 valves make less of a gain than a good P&P...and have heard elsewhere to forego cams and keep it simple on a head build. I'm hoping getting rid of the overlap will change the characteristics enough for my liking...but you know what they say about things you've heard and not researched enough.
#11
It's not the reduction in overlap that increases torque near redline, it is the later closing intake. If you want a later closing intake without decreasing overlap, you need more duration.
Between increasing duration and simply retarding the intake, more duration is more beneficial for a high revving motor.
However because you have cam gears already you should try the retardation first. You can measure the effect without a dyno by logging AFR's on back to back street runs to high RPM on the same stretch of road, at different cam gear settings. e.g. a 4% increase in AFR at 6800 RPM pretty much means a 4% increase in torque at 6800 RPM.
On the 99+ Rebello told me +1 on the intake requires lots of extra work to make it flow. The exhaust doesn't require much work. And yes there are more gains just from the porting than +1 + porting. Dunno about the 1.6.
Between increasing duration and simply retarding the intake, more duration is more beneficial for a high revving motor.
However because you have cam gears already you should try the retardation first. You can measure the effect without a dyno by logging AFR's on back to back street runs to high RPM on the same stretch of road, at different cam gear settings. e.g. a 4% increase in AFR at 6800 RPM pretty much means a 4% increase in torque at 6800 RPM.
On the 99+ Rebello told me +1 on the intake requires lots of extra work to make it flow. The exhaust doesn't require much work. And yes there are more gains just from the porting than +1 + porting. Dunno about the 1.6.
#12
The springs from the 94-97 head are slightly stiffer than the springs from the 99+. So putting 94 springs in your 99 head with the lighter solid lifters should support a slightly higher redline. Anything more than 1k rpm and you need shim under bucket and preferably double valve springs.
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