MS3 build planning - 99 motor in 94 Miata (SC)
#21
I said this in my email to you, but the truth of the matter is that you aren't getting away from the 5th injector setup. Because the FFS system does not use an intercooler, it relies on the cooling properties of the fuel being injected into the blower to reduce IATs to safe levels. You can control this 5th injector any way you like, either by using powercards or a standalone ECU or even a combination of the two, but you cannot delete it.
The only way around this would be to spray water into the ports instead. Every CC of water you spray is displacing a CC of air/fuel mixture, which means the engine makes less power. You are effectively reducing the flow capacity of the system by adding water, which cannot be combusted. You could use a 50/50 meth mixture to partially combat this, but you still won't make as much power.
Are 5th injector setups hokey? Hell yes. It is insane to me that you would spray fuel into the blower to reduce IATs.
The combination of these realities is why I declined to tune your car. You cannot safely install an FFS system without a 5th injector setup, and I don't want to touch anything with a 5th injector setup. Therefore, I don't want to touch an FFS system.
The only way around this would be to spray water into the ports instead. Every CC of water you spray is displacing a CC of air/fuel mixture, which means the engine makes less power. You are effectively reducing the flow capacity of the system by adding water, which cannot be combusted. You could use a 50/50 meth mixture to partially combat this, but you still won't make as much power.
Are 5th injector setups hokey? Hell yes. It is insane to me that you would spray fuel into the blower to reduce IATs.
The combination of these realities is why I declined to tune your car. You cannot safely install an FFS system without a 5th injector setup, and I don't want to touch anything with a 5th injector setup. Therefore, I don't want to touch an FFS system.
I would strongly urge you to re-evaluate the decision to use an FFS system.
other good blower options. A Kraftwerks Rotrex kit with a little DIY improvement is a good option, or any MP62 or TVS900 hotside system with dual-throttles and a conventional FMIC will do the trick as well. Even an old Whipple "coldside" like the FM Ubercharger would be a great option. If none of those strike your fancy, and you must stay away from turbos, I would go to a K24A2 setup.
#22
Step 1: Get an MS3, learn to set up your car
Step 2: Ride in a lot of fast Miatas (get out to Miatas @ MRLS!)
Step 3: Make decisions later
The sensor I'm referring to is largely a diagnostic sensor that checks if EGR is working. It is not necessary to have that sensor to use EGR. The harness plug for it just has the right wires (5V, sensor return, signal), and it's in the right place to hide a MAP sensor.
The EGR question is kind of a can of worms. Generally speaking, no actively controlled emissions features will be functioning out of the box with a standalone. It's not going to be a supported PnP feature, but it's just another solenoid so you can control it however you want with an MS3 output.
Step 2: Ride in a lot of fast Miatas (get out to Miatas @ MRLS!)
Step 3: Make decisions later
The EGR question is kind of a can of worms. Generally speaking, no actively controlled emissions features will be functioning out of the box with a standalone. It's not going to be a supported PnP feature, but it's just another solenoid so you can control it however you want with an MS3 output.
#23
Hey guys,
Reviving my old thread instead of starting a new one. I decided to do an 11:1 NA build and have the engine getting built. Car's current status: MS3 w/ Innovate LC-2 wideband and MSLabs CAN Wideband module is installed on 1994 motor (which is now smoking badly, more than oil smoke, and is basically not in running condition...but at least I got to test that it starts and idles on the new ECU) using MAP + IAT. I should be a few weeks from getting my new motor, which is a 01-05 11:1 build with a 2.5 mm overbore, upgrade valve springs and retainers, and otherwise has Trackspeed's typical build components (billet oil pump, race-grade main bearings, etc.).
So I have a few questions about installing the new 01-05 engine in my 1994 chassis car, which has an MS3 built for the 1994 wiring harness:
1) Crank/Cam timing: Would it be better to adapt the 1994 CAS/CPS to the newer motor, or should I be wiring a 99-05 CAS/CPS into the existing wiring loom, or something else besides? Any tricks or pitfalls to be aware of?
2) Anything special I need to handle VVT? Am I wiring something from the engine into the MS3's options plug...?
3) Any advice on a barometric sensor for continuous reference back to the ECU? I have read some and see this is a contentious topic, whether or not you adjust your VE tables by a few percent or not...I was hoping I'd be able to figure that out with a laptop and some road testing and my AFR gauge, so wanted to avoid that debate right now. I see a lot of people adapting the MAPdaddy 4 bar sensor as an external baro, but DIYAutoTune recommends precisely AGAINST doing that...I haven't seen other options, what is out there? I'm thinking it would be good to have some sort of pressure sensor wired to the options plug and mounted somewhere near the ECU, does that make sense or am I crazy?
P.S. My 99 core became a 01-05 core thanks to the generosity of TrackSpeed offering a superior core he had on hand
Reviving my old thread instead of starting a new one. I decided to do an 11:1 NA build and have the engine getting built. Car's current status: MS3 w/ Innovate LC-2 wideband and MSLabs CAN Wideband module is installed on 1994 motor (which is now smoking badly, more than oil smoke, and is basically not in running condition...but at least I got to test that it starts and idles on the new ECU) using MAP + IAT. I should be a few weeks from getting my new motor, which is a 01-05 11:1 build with a 2.5 mm overbore, upgrade valve springs and retainers, and otherwise has Trackspeed's typical build components (billet oil pump, race-grade main bearings, etc.).
So I have a few questions about installing the new 01-05 engine in my 1994 chassis car, which has an MS3 built for the 1994 wiring harness:
1) Crank/Cam timing: Would it be better to adapt the 1994 CAS/CPS to the newer motor, or should I be wiring a 99-05 CAS/CPS into the existing wiring loom, or something else besides? Any tricks or pitfalls to be aware of?
2) Anything special I need to handle VVT? Am I wiring something from the engine into the MS3's options plug...?
3) Any advice on a barometric sensor for continuous reference back to the ECU? I have read some and see this is a contentious topic, whether or not you adjust your VE tables by a few percent or not...I was hoping I'd be able to figure that out with a laptop and some road testing and my AFR gauge, so wanted to avoid that debate right now. I see a lot of people adapting the MAPdaddy 4 bar sensor as an external baro, but DIYAutoTune recommends precisely AGAINST doing that...I haven't seen other options, what is out there? I'm thinking it would be good to have some sort of pressure sensor wired to the options plug and mounted somewhere near the ECU, does that make sense or am I crazy?
P.S. My 99 core became a 01-05 core thanks to the generosity of TrackSpeed offering a superior core he had on hand
#24
Retired Mech Design Engr
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Pick up the "boost sensor" from an NB, or any other MAP sensor that can be mounted in the engine or passenger compartments. You can calibrate it against the internal MAP sensor using a hand vacuum pump, a tee, and some hose.
The above mentioned "boost sensor" is approximately 1.4 bar unit, perfect for atmospheric readings.
I have not been able to tune for barometric as I have not been in the mountains sense I installed mine.
What is DIYAuto's issue with the 4-bar?
The above mentioned "boost sensor" is approximately 1.4 bar unit, perfect for atmospheric readings.
I have not been able to tune for barometric as I have not been in the mountains sense I installed mine.
What is DIYAuto's issue with the 4-bar?