Im a super noob even after reading
#1
Closed loop idle help
Hey guys,
So I've owned my miata for about a year and have been tuning myself on a MS3 for a while now. It's been going well and I have learned a lot but I've really struggled as of recent in trying to tune Closed Loop. I've gotten most things how I want them but now I've been getting this weird osscilation that I can't fix. I recently switched from 87 to 91 before boosting here in the next months when I get my Mkturbo kit in. I retuned my VE table, WE and ASE which I thought I had dialed again but I guess not. My issues have been a hanging idle at like 1500 after driving shortly after starting, which could be fixed by sitting still for a bit till it gets all warmed up and then going. Is there a better fix? Adjusting my WE seemed to help I suppose. The main issue is in the data log I have attached. There is a weird ossicliation that I believe is linked to that advanced part of the CL idle. I tried adjusting some things to get rid of the weird hanging idle and fix a droop that happens when I hold both of my power window switches. I'm a noob but would love to learn if you all know of a thread that would be good or can explain it to me. I've tried reading a miata blog? about a guy explain CL idle but was left with more questions and confusion. Thanks in advance. Please don't flame too hard
Edit: More info, 96 miata. Stock everything but soon to be boosted. Stock maf without using the provided one with the Megasquirt (Could that be causing issues with my idle?). Recently my AEM Uego has been reading off by about .5 too low. My head hurts
So I've owned my miata for about a year and have been tuning myself on a MS3 for a while now. It's been going well and I have learned a lot but I've really struggled as of recent in trying to tune Closed Loop. I've gotten most things how I want them but now I've been getting this weird osscilation that I can't fix. I recently switched from 87 to 91 before boosting here in the next months when I get my Mkturbo kit in. I retuned my VE table, WE and ASE which I thought I had dialed again but I guess not. My issues have been a hanging idle at like 1500 after driving shortly after starting, which could be fixed by sitting still for a bit till it gets all warmed up and then going. Is there a better fix? Adjusting my WE seemed to help I suppose. The main issue is in the data log I have attached. There is a weird ossicliation that I believe is linked to that advanced part of the CL idle. I tried adjusting some things to get rid of the weird hanging idle and fix a droop that happens when I hold both of my power window switches. I'm a noob but would love to learn if you all know of a thread that would be good or can explain it to me. I've tried reading a miata blog? about a guy explain CL idle but was left with more questions and confusion. Thanks in advance. Please don't flame too hard
Edit: More info, 96 miata. Stock everything but soon to be boosted. Stock maf without using the provided one with the Megasquirt (Could that be causing issues with my idle?). Recently my AEM Uego has been reading off by about .5 too low. My head hurts
Last edited by thebigtuna; 08-16-2017 at 10:05 PM.
#4
Thanks for the replies. I understand I need to tune idle first, it's been tuned for a while but I'm working on fine tuning which created the problem. I guess the maf question was dumb just throwing out idea as to what I could be doing wrong. Ve table has been tuned for a while. I don't want to touch the spark right now as I don't want knock and am unsure about my skills doing that right now. No A/C or PS.
#7
Okay I'll try to do a better search and see what I find. Maybe it's not my CL idle. When I'm fully warmed up I idle at 800-900 but get a weird hanging idle for about 5 seconds or so at like 1200. I posted a datalog and tune so someone might be able to see what my problem is and help me. It's a weird osscilation that's kind of just started
#8
Is this the thread you were referencing?
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/idle-tuning-instructions-sticky-request-59027/
If so I feel like an idiot because it took me 10 seconds to find it in google. It seems my understanding of idle tuning was way off from what actually needs to happen so I apologize for this thread. Thanks for helping me realize this guys. Off to read and practice tuning more
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/idle-tuning-instructions-sticky-request-59027/
If so I feel like an idiot because it took me 10 seconds to find it in google. It seems my understanding of idle tuning was way off from what actually needs to happen so I apologize for this thread. Thanks for helping me realize this guys. Off to read and practice tuning more
#10
Okay I'll try to do a better search and see what I find. Maybe it's not my CL idle. When I'm fully warmed up I idle at 800-900 but get a weird hanging idle for about 5 seconds or so at like 1200. I posted a datalog and tune so someone might be able to see what my problem is and help me. It's a weird osscilation that's kind of just started
Secondly, the rev hang is because you CL idle target table is not tuned good enough, the computer picks the value from the table first before using CL to dial it in. The more accurate you get the table, the more accurate the idle will be. You will also want to check all of the requirements to enter CL and make sure they are good values, going into and out of CL can cause oscillations.
#11
Yeah I think I have a decent grasp on the CL idle target values. I think I have most of mine set to about 1000 till it gets to warm it gradually goes to 800. Is there a benefit to having it stay higher? To me it's just annoying to hear the engine revving louder than I'd really like which is why I chose a compromise of 1000.
The second part makes sense for my problem. I had never set up or even really known about the seperate Idle VE table. Thought idle ve was just the 4 or so cells it hung at in the normal VE. I recently found a post by y8s? Detailing how to dial in that table which I hope to do in the coming days. As well as the braineak one mentioned earlier in the thread
The second part makes sense for my problem. I had never set up or even really known about the seperate Idle VE table. Thought idle ve was just the 4 or so cells it hung at in the normal VE. I recently found a post by y8s? Detailing how to dial in that table which I hope to do in the coming days. As well as the braineak one mentioned earlier in the thread
#12
Your IAC valve frequency is high for a na valve.Try ~200Hz
The rpm hang is most likely cl idle algorithm not kicking in(conditions not met), plus you are using "use last value" and not an initial value table.
Initial value table is what vitamin_j told you to tune actually.
You can get the car to idle like a charm under any conditions if you get the grasp of it, follow the link posted above.
The rpm hang is most likely cl idle algorithm not kicking in(conditions not met), plus you are using "use last value" and not an initial value table.
Initial value table is what vitamin_j told you to tune actually.
You can get the car to idle like a charm under any conditions if you get the grasp of it, follow the link posted above.
#13
Thanks for the help guys. I didn't even know closed loop idle initial values table was a thing. I can get close with those values by knowing my minimum I gained from doing the IAC valve test a while back to get my closed loop minimum duty? I'm learning a whole lot of new things I had been overlooking. If I'm understanding right this in the thread above Brain is discussing tuning closed loop idle PID and then later on the Idle VE. Which was also talked about by y8s in another thread I found. I also changed the PMW Idle frequency to 204 hz which should be better? I attempted to do Brain's CL PID but couldn't get the idle to hang at any rpm and then back it down by increasing I. I'm guessing that is because my Idle VE table and General Spark table have just big jumps in numbers? I've tried smoothing out the Spark a little in the idle regions and Tuning the Idle VE table but haven't gotten back out to the car to see if it helped. I don't have AC so it was kind of hard to get the car under load like he talks about. Also should I be using PID or normal activation for Idle VE? Normal so I can control the parameters correct?
Last edited by thebigtuna; 08-18-2017 at 02:25 PM.
#14
I just redid my clbidle last night and for me it works good. I'll post a screenshot of my setting when I get home but this is what I did.
- Set spark cells the same and tune idle be table for the most vacuum I got 32kpa
- Setup cl parameters and the initial value table
- Then I followed Brian's steps and for our when I switched from basic to advanced I left it alone because it worked good.
#15
As soon as I set it to basic my rpm go haywire and i can't tune anything. It's just jumping around everywhere. Is that my parameters ******* something up. I was trying to do those steps basically to tune idle ve and the initial values but couldn't get anything done. Doing brains steps wouldn't work as the idle would never hang for me. Just dropped immediately as I turned things off or if I left my a/C on it would stat at 2k and wouldn't drop np matter how much I % I put in