How to add more fuel in Megatune
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 963
Total Cats: -1
![Exclamation](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon4.gif)
Ok, so i want to add 30% more fuel across the entire VE map. Is there a way to just select the entire VE map and add 30% to every value?
I cant figure out how to do it.
Thanks, Taras
I cant figure out how to do it.
Thanks, Taras
#2
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 2,034
Total Cats: 5
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
You can select all the cells. Click and drag the courser from say top left to bottom right.
Once that is done you a few little boxes will appear on the upper right hand side of the VE map. From there you can enter in a value and add or subtract however much you want to adjust.
Once that is done you a few little boxes will appear on the upper right hand side of the VE map. From there you can enter in a value and add or subtract however much you want to adjust.
#6
Boost Pope
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/smod.png)
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,339
Total Cats: 6,793
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
To add 30%, you don't shift by 30, you scale by 1.3.
E85... Chris Swearegen's MS2 is set up for it. Not sure if he actually started using it. Injector size probably needs to go up, depending on how high your DC% is on gasoline.
Lines & seals are somewhat a matter of speculation. Some say that most cars built in the last 20 years or so are ok with it. And that since we're all running E10 anyway, you'd know if there was a problem already. All we know is, he's called The Stig.
E85... Chris Swearegen's MS2 is set up for it. Not sure if he actually started using it. Injector size probably needs to go up, depending on how high your DC% is on gasoline.
Lines & seals are somewhat a matter of speculation. Some say that most cars built in the last 20 years or so are ok with it. And that since we're all running E10 anyway, you'd know if there was a problem already. All we know is, he's called The Stig.
#8
Boost Pope
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/smod.png)
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,339
Total Cats: 6,793
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
When you shift a table, you increase (or decrease) the value of every cell by the amount entered.
If a cell was at 200, then it goes to 230, which is a 15% increase.
If a cell was at 100, then it goes to 130, a 30% increase.
If a cell was at 60, then it goes to 90, a 50% increase.
If a cell was at 30, then it goes to 60, a 100% increase.
Got it?
Now by contrast, if you scale a table by 1.3, then the value of every cell is multiplied by 1.3, which gives every cell a 30% boost.
100 becomes 130.
60 becomes 78.
30 becomes 39.
(200 wraps around and becomes 4, because of a stupid bug in the way they handle overflows.)
If a cell was at 200, then it goes to 230, which is a 15% increase.
If a cell was at 100, then it goes to 130, a 30% increase.
If a cell was at 60, then it goes to 90, a 50% increase.
If a cell was at 30, then it goes to 60, a 100% increase.
Got it?
Now by contrast, if you scale a table by 1.3, then the value of every cell is multiplied by 1.3, which gives every cell a 30% boost.
100 becomes 130.
60 becomes 78.
30 becomes 39.
(200 wraps around and becomes 4, because of a stupid bug in the way they handle overflows.)
![Name: nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg
Views: 32
Size: 14.5 KB](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/megasquirt-18/203891d1501248901-how-add-more-fuel-megatune-nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg)
#10
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
When you shift a table, you increase (or decrease) the value of every cell by the amount entered.
If a cell was at 200, then it goes to 230, which is a 15% increase.
If a cell was at 100, then it goes to 130, a 30% increase.
If a cell was at 60, then it goes to 90, a 50% increase.
If a cell was at 30, then it goes to 60, a 100% increase.
Got it?
Now by contrast, if you scale a table by 1.3, then the value of every cell is multiplied by 1.3, which gives every cell a 30% boost.
100 becomes 130.
60 becomes 78.
30 becomes 39.
(200 wraps around and becomes 4, because of a stupid bug in the way they handle overflows.)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/Gamer674G/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg)
If a cell was at 200, then it goes to 230, which is a 15% increase.
If a cell was at 100, then it goes to 130, a 30% increase.
If a cell was at 60, then it goes to 90, a 50% increase.
If a cell was at 30, then it goes to 60, a 100% increase.
Got it?
Now by contrast, if you scale a table by 1.3, then the value of every cell is multiplied by 1.3, which gives every cell a 30% boost.
100 becomes 130.
60 becomes 78.
30 becomes 39.
(200 wraps around and becomes 4, because of a stupid bug in the way they handle overflows.)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/Gamer674G/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg)
#11
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
Total Cats: 43
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm kind of skeptical of all the stuff they claim you need to replace..
#12
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Some kid I know from a "tune shop" around here did a test with a honda OEM Gas tank. Filled it 1/2 full of E85, dumped a fuel rail, injectors, pump, plastic, rubber, hose, etc inside and let it sit for almost a year. Shook it up now and then, never damaged a thing...
I'm kind of skeptical of all the stuff they claim you need to replace..
I'm kind of skeptical of all the stuff they claim you need to replace..
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 963
Total Cats: -1
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
So when i start tuning for e85, what AFRs should i be looking for at wot? It looks like stoich for e85 is richer than gas. Right now at wot i am running 10.5 or so. So should i be tuning for 8?
#15
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
Total Cats: 43
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm pretty tempted to make the switch to E85 if and when I can ever get a turbo put on my car...
Time will tell.
IMO 10.5 is WAY too much fuel for gasoline. I'm not super familiar with boosted afr's on gas, but I think most of the guys on here run upper 11:1s in boost...
Time will tell.
IMO 10.5 is WAY too much fuel for gasoline. I'm not super familiar with boosted afr's on gas, but I think most of the guys on here run upper 11:1s in boost...
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 963
Total Cats: -1
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
yeah i know its a bit too rich but for some reason my tuner tuned it like that. Thats probably why i am only making 190 at 12psi
I'm pretty tempted to make the switch to E85 if and when I can ever get a turbo put on my car...
Time will tell.
IMO 10.5 is WAY too much fuel for gasoline. I'm not super familiar with boosted afr's on gas, but I think most of the guys on here run upper 11:1s in boost...
Time will tell.
IMO 10.5 is WAY too much fuel for gasoline. I'm not super familiar with boosted afr's on gas, but I think most of the guys on here run upper 11:1s in boost...
#18
Boost Pope
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/smod.png)
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,339
Total Cats: 6,793
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Bear in mind something about measuring AFR with fuels other than gasoline.
All wideband O2 sensors (and narrowbands as well) do not actually measure AFR directly, they measure Lambda, which is written as λ.
Lambda is not a constant, at least not insofar as AFR is concerned. Instead, lambda represents the ideal stoichiometric mixture for any fuel. No matter what you're burning, be it gasoline, propane, alcohol, etc., 1 λ always represents stoichiometric for that fuel.
Now, we tend to think in terms of AFR for some reason, so wideband controllers are programmed to do a conversion between lambda and AFR. Specifically, they have either a lookup table or a formula that tells them how the varios values of λ correspond to various AFRs for whatever fuel you are using. With gasoline, 1 λ = 14.7 : 1, so when the controller receives a signal that the sensor is measuring 1 λ, it puts 14.7 on the display.
Of course, you have to tell it which fuel you're using in order for this to be true.
So let's say that you have a wideband system that's calibrated for gasoline, and instead you start running E85 in the car. Anytime your actual AFR is at 9.765 : 1, that's 1 λ. The sensor will read 1 λ and pass this information to the controller, which will decode it and display 14.7. You're not actually running at 14.7, you're running at 9.765, but all the sensor knows is that you're at 1 λ, and all the controller knows is that when it gets a signal for 1 λ, it's supposed to show 14.7 on the display.
And that's fine, just so long as you know what's going on.
Moral of story: You can run any fuel you want, or any blend of fuels. No matter what you've got in the tank, when your WBO2 display says 14.7, you're at stoich.
Obviously more advanced devices like the LC1 can be re-calibrated for E85, or any other fuel for that matter. The AEM cannot, so if you have one of those, you can either switch it to pure Lambda display and re-learn how to think (bigger numbers = richer mixtures, the opposite of AFR) or you can just leave it in the gasoline cal and blissfully ignore everyone who tells you that you're wrong.
All wideband O2 sensors (and narrowbands as well) do not actually measure AFR directly, they measure Lambda, which is written as λ.
Lambda is not a constant, at least not insofar as AFR is concerned. Instead, lambda represents the ideal stoichiometric mixture for any fuel. No matter what you're burning, be it gasoline, propane, alcohol, etc., 1 λ always represents stoichiometric for that fuel.
Now, we tend to think in terms of AFR for some reason, so wideband controllers are programmed to do a conversion between lambda and AFR. Specifically, they have either a lookup table or a formula that tells them how the varios values of λ correspond to various AFRs for whatever fuel you are using. With gasoline, 1 λ = 14.7 : 1, so when the controller receives a signal that the sensor is measuring 1 λ, it puts 14.7 on the display.
Of course, you have to tell it which fuel you're using in order for this to be true.
So let's say that you have a wideband system that's calibrated for gasoline, and instead you start running E85 in the car. Anytime your actual AFR is at 9.765 : 1, that's 1 λ. The sensor will read 1 λ and pass this information to the controller, which will decode it and display 14.7. You're not actually running at 14.7, you're running at 9.765, but all the sensor knows is that you're at 1 λ, and all the controller knows is that when it gets a signal for 1 λ, it's supposed to show 14.7 on the display.
And that's fine, just so long as you know what's going on.
Moral of story: You can run any fuel you want, or any blend of fuels. No matter what you've got in the tank, when your WBO2 display says 14.7, you're at stoich.
Obviously more advanced devices like the LC1 can be re-calibrated for E85, or any other fuel for that matter. The AEM cannot, so if you have one of those, you can either switch it to pure Lambda display and re-learn how to think (bigger numbers = richer mixtures, the opposite of AFR) or you can just leave it in the gasoline cal and blissfully ignore everyone who tells you that you're wrong.
![](http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/knowing-is-half-the-battle.jpg)
#20
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Obviously more advanced devices like the LC1 can be re-calibrated for E85, or any other fuel for that matter. The AEM cannot, so if you have one of those, you can either switch it to pure Lambda display and re-learn how to think (bigger numbers = richer mixtures, the opposite of AFR) or you can just leave it in the gasoline cal and blissfully ignore everyone who tells you that you're wrong.