Help me work out this MS-II please
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
Help me work out this MS-II please
Ok guys, I am trying to figure out this Mega Squirt 2 ECU for my 2000 miata. This engine is currently completely stock and has AC. I do plan to turbo it soon but want to figure out the EMS first to simplify things later.
I have read and tried my hardest to understand all of the stickys. I have also tried to search out information that i couldn't figure out for my self. Unfortunately i still have a few questions.
First off, this is the list of components that i have come up with that i think i will be needing. Is there anything that i am missing?
-MS-II Engine Management System w/PCB3 - UnAssembled Kit $247.00
-Jumper 10-Pack $7.00
-JimStim v1.4 MegaSquirt Stimulator w/ Wheel Simulator Unassembled $59.00
-MegaSquirt Tuning Cable (DB9 Straight Thru) $5.50
-Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w\ LC-1 & G3 Analog Gauge $289.00
-MegaSquirt Stimulator Power Supply $7.50
-Lead Bending Tool $5.50
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Relay Control 'ModKit' $5.00
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Boost Control Mod-Kit $7.00
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Pullup Resistors 'ModKit' $1.60x2
-250 pc Cable Tie Assortment $5.50
-MegaSquirt Wiring Bundle - 23" Long $12.00
-GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail $22.25
-PCBv3 -- PWM IAC Valve Control (TIP120) 'Mod-Kit' $7.00
Sub-Total: $682.45
Second, i would like to leave the stock wiring and ecu as unmolested as possible. I would like to run the MS as a standalone, but would also like to be able to switch back to the stock ecu if i need to.
Third, i am not sure what is needed to maintain control of the stock alternator, AC, and VICS. I don't really understand the stickys that address these issues. Perhaps i should just build the MS first and worry about these issues when i get to them.
Thanks for your patience,
-Jared-
I have read and tried my hardest to understand all of the stickys. I have also tried to search out information that i couldn't figure out for my self. Unfortunately i still have a few questions.
First off, this is the list of components that i have come up with that i think i will be needing. Is there anything that i am missing?
-MS-II Engine Management System w/PCB3 - UnAssembled Kit $247.00
-Jumper 10-Pack $7.00
-JimStim v1.4 MegaSquirt Stimulator w/ Wheel Simulator Unassembled $59.00
-MegaSquirt Tuning Cable (DB9 Straight Thru) $5.50
-Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w\ LC-1 & G3 Analog Gauge $289.00
-MegaSquirt Stimulator Power Supply $7.50
-Lead Bending Tool $5.50
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Relay Control 'ModKit' $5.00
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Boost Control Mod-Kit $7.00
-PCBv3 and v2.2 -- Pullup Resistors 'ModKit' $1.60x2
-250 pc Cable Tie Assortment $5.50
-MegaSquirt Wiring Bundle - 23" Long $12.00
-GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail $22.25
-PCBv3 -- PWM IAC Valve Control (TIP120) 'Mod-Kit' $7.00
Sub-Total: $682.45
Second, i would like to leave the stock wiring and ecu as unmolested as possible. I would like to run the MS as a standalone, but would also like to be able to switch back to the stock ecu if i need to.
Third, i am not sure what is needed to maintain control of the stock alternator, AC, and VICS. I don't really understand the stickys that address these issues. Perhaps i should just build the MS first and worry about these issues when i get to them.
Thanks for your patience,
-Jared-
#2
Can't say much now due to time constraints, but I'll help you more later tonight. I suggest building a standalone setup myself. Simpler and better IMO. AbeFM has done a MS2 standalone and so have I. Research his name here too and you'll find some various info you might be looking for.
Also, once you put bigger injectors the stock ECU will no longer run the car. I built a parellel setup and now I'm standalone. Most start out parallel cause it's fail safe, but then realize it's not needed and they go standalone. Or just do parallel to let the stock ECU do idle, alternator, etc, but it will still not run the car on its own without swapping back to stock injectors.
Also, once you put bigger injectors the stock ECU will no longer run the car. I built a parellel setup and now I'm standalone. Most start out parallel cause it's fail safe, but then realize it's not needed and they go standalone. Or just do parallel to let the stock ECU do idle, alternator, etc, but it will still not run the car on its own without swapping back to stock injectors.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
I really don't want to run a parallel install, i just want the ability to switch back to the stock ecu while the engine is stock. Since this is my only mode of transport, I think this would really help me while I am still figuring things out.
#4
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,339
Total Cats: 6,793
For alternator control, you need the Mopar part that Abe refers to here: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21621/ Alternator control does not interface to the MS at all, it's completely standalone.
For A/C, you'll just need a diode and some jumper wires. Again, this is independent of the MS. Ideally, you'll also modify your stock purge valve to open when the A/C is on, to compensate for idle droop and prevent stalls. I wrote up the NA version of this in my AC FAQ, I probably need to do an NB-specific chapter for that as well.
#5
Im running MS-II v 3.0 EDIS with relay board and fuse block on my 90 1.6 with ITB's and is a complete parallel install. It controls spark and fuel only. It has its own independent set of sensors (MAP, IAT, TPS, CLT) and is not tapped into any of the cars factory wiring. The factory ecu controls the IAC valve and I enjoy completely stock idle from warmup, idle up when a/c switch is pressed to moving the steering wheel left to right. I modified another injector wiring harness to work with MS and kept the original one in case I decide to go back to stock. Havent had a problem in the 1 1/2 yrs that Ive had it.
There is an advantage to letting the factory ECU do what it does best and let MS control spark and fuel.
There is an advantage to letting the factory ECU do what it does best and let MS control spark and fuel.
#6
Im running MS-II v 3.0 EDIS with relay board and fuse block on my 90 1.6 with ITB's and is a complete parallel install. It controls spark and fuel only. It has its own independent set of sensors (MAP, IAT, TPS, CLT) and is not tapped into any of the cars factory wiring. The factory ecu controls the IAC valve and I enjoy completely stock idle from warmup, idle up when a/c switch is pressed to moving the steering wheel left to right. I modified another injector wiring harness to work with MS and kept the original one in case I decide to go back to stock. Havent had a problem in the 1 1/2 yrs that Ive had it.
There is an advantage to letting the factory ECU do what it does best and let MS control spark and fuel.
There is an advantage to letting the factory ECU do what it does best and let MS control spark and fuel.
#7
I'm running parallel and while it works pretty well, I'm going to redo my wiring this weekend. I'll still be parallel but I'm going to use Jason's Schmitt trigger input circuits w/o pullups instead of the current transistor circuits.
If I didn't live in California I'd go standalone.
RDSnake, how do you control idle w/ a stock ECU and ITBs?
If I didn't live in California I'd go standalone.
RDSnake, how do you control idle w/ a stock ECU and ITBs?
#10
Any thoughts yet on what your going to do for crank and cam signals? There is Abe's reverse engineering of the stock ECU, Jason's Schmitt trigger alternative of Abe's circuit, 97 or before cam sensor, or a toothed wheel like RdSnake and Pat. I don't know of anyone that has had luck with the circuit on the MS2Extra page but it's an alternative, too. I tried the VR circuit about a year ago for the crank signal and never got anywhere. I got the car running once with it but the signal looked like crap on a scope and the car would barely idle.
MS2-Extra Miata Manual
MS2-Extra Miata Manual
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
i am looking at buying the components for the "boomslang" style harness. However all of the distributors have a minimum order of $35. So from the looks of it i can get the parts for one NB harnesses for about $16.32 + shipping.
To prevent money from being wasted, does any one want to go in on an order with me for boomslang parts?
64 Pin Male connector (174518-7)------$5.66 ea
26 Pin Female connector (174516-6)----$1.13 ea
22 Pin Female connector (174515-6)----$1.08 ea
16 Pin Female connector (174514-6)--- $0.80 ea
.040" Contacts (175061-1)-------------$0.125 ea
.070" Contacts (173716-1)-------------$0.045ea
-Jared-
To prevent money from being wasted, does any one want to go in on an order with me for boomslang parts?
64 Pin Male connector (174518-7)------$5.66 ea
26 Pin Female connector (174516-6)----$1.13 ea
22 Pin Female connector (174515-6)----$1.08 ea
16 Pin Female connector (174514-6)--- $0.80 ea
.040" Contacts (175061-1)-------------$0.125 ea
.070" Contacts (173716-1)-------------$0.045ea
-Jared-
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
Good question Arga,
I was under the impression that the MS2 was able to be programed with the NB CAS.
How do you have yours set up arga? :edited: duh parallel with stock ecu
Since i have no answer to this, perhaps someone else could shed a little light on this situation.
I was under the impression that the MS2 was able to be programed with the NB CAS.
How do you have yours set up arga? :edited: duh parallel with stock ecu
Since i have no answer to this, perhaps someone else could shed a little light on this situation.
Last edited by swimming108; 11-06-2008 at 12:55 PM.
#13
The MS2E software can handle the 99+ crank and cam signals. Getting a clean signal to the software seems to be the challenge.
I'm currently using secret option 'D', a simple transistor isolation circuit. I'm running in parallel so the ECU handles the 5v pull up. It's worked well for me but a few other people have tried it and all of them have had trouble with dropped pulses. I'm currently redoing my wiring and I think I may try Jason's circuit instead. I can always go back if it doesn't work for me. NPN switching transistors are $2 for a box of 15.
I'm currently using secret option 'D', a simple transistor isolation circuit. I'm running in parallel so the ECU handles the 5v pull up. It's worked well for me but a few other people have tried it and all of them have had trouble with dropped pulses. I'm currently redoing my wiring and I think I may try Jason's circuit instead. I can always go back if it doesn't work for me. NPN switching transistors are $2 for a box of 15.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
Ok, so i have a few questions.
1. do the jumper settings for tach and ignition mentioned in brainy's sticky work for a 2000 miata and a MS2?
2. Does the Q7 to Q4 swap and mod listed in the same post work successfully for fan control in my application?
i am sure i will have more questions soon as i am knee deep in this thing.
Thanks,
-Jared-
1. do the jumper settings for tach and ignition mentioned in brainy's sticky work for a 2000 miata and a MS2?
2. Does the Q7 to Q4 swap and mod listed in the same post work successfully for fan control in my application?
i am sure i will have more questions soon as i am knee deep in this thing.
Thanks,
-Jared-
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
ok, screw those questions. Since a picture is worth a thousand words... this is what i have so far.
-along with the jumpers from Brainy's build instructions i have one relay hooked up for the fans
-how do i hook up the relay for the VICS
-there is no rpm value reported in megatune
-I cannot get my o2 to work in megatune
-I was only able to get MS2-extra 1.0.2 to flash to the ecu and run in megatune
-along with the jumpers from Brainy's build instructions i have one relay hooked up for the fans
-how do i hook up the relay for the VICS
-there is no rpm value reported in megatune
-I cannot get my o2 to work in megatune
-I was only able to get MS2-extra 1.0.2 to flash to the ecu and run in megatune
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
ok switched the TSEL to OPTOUT and now i get a rpm reading (needs tuned badly)and a o2 reading.
-What firmware do you guys recommend i flash to the ecu/ can you post it's location?
-i am having a hard time setting up the tach/ignition settings in megatune, got any recommendations?
Thanks
-Jared-
-What firmware do you guys recommend i flash to the ecu/ can you post it's location?
-i am having a hard time setting up the tach/ignition settings in megatune, got any recommendations?
Thanks
-Jared-
#19
ok switched the TSEL to OPTOUT and now i get a rpm reading (needs tuned badly)and a o2 reading.
-What firmware do you guys recommend i flash to the ecu/ can you post it's location?
-i am having a hard time setting up the tach/ignition settings in megatune, got any recommendations?
Thanks
-Jared-
-What firmware do you guys recommend i flash to the ecu/ can you post it's location?
-i am having a hard time setting up the tach/ignition settings in megatune, got any recommendations?
Thanks
-Jared-
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 638
Total Cats: 11
i am having a hard time getting MS2_EXTRA 2.0.1 firmware to flash to the ecu. I get an error code at 40%
ERROR: Timed out reading response, 0xE0
Elapsed time: 7.58 seconds
ERROR: Timed out reading response, 0xE0
Elapsed time: 13.88 seconds
Any ideas?
cheers,
-Jared-
ERROR: Timed out reading response, 0xE0
Elapsed time: 7.58 seconds
ERROR: Timed out reading response, 0xE0
Elapsed time: 13.88 seconds
Any ideas?
cheers,
-Jared-