The Science of Nutrition
#21
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Oh, and beer as well. Now that I think about it, claiming that grains, a product of beer, are toxic is blasphemy and I proclaim jihad on anyone who discounts the nutritional efficacy of frosted barley pop.
#22
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It can take more than a week for your body to adjust to the new energy sources (and to clean out toxins and adjust regulatory processes). Most people find improved skin to be a benefit of cutting out inflammatory grains and sugars, since most skin conditions are inflammatory in nature.
This is a weird post that I've seen you make before. I understand that you get off from being the skeptical contrarian, but just go read some of the research. It's easily available. There's tons of new research over the last 20-30 years demonstrating the role of inflammation in the vast majority of diseases (especially autoimmune disorders) as well as the inflammatory nature of most grains and sugars.
This is a weird post that I've seen you make before. I understand that you get off from being the skeptical contrarian, but just go read some of the research. It's easily available. There's tons of new research over the last 20-30 years demonstrating the role of inflammation in the vast majority of diseases (especially autoimmune disorders) as well as the inflammatory nature of most grains and sugars.
You've got articles like this that show whole grains being good for you, but refined grains being bad.
Whole and Refined Grain Intakes Are Related to Inflammatory Protein Concentrations in Human Plasma
Or this where whole grains are shown to have no real negative effects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17391554
There was a pretty interesting article on sugar in the NY Times magazine a few years ago that indicated there are a large body of scientists that think sugar is the culprit in a wide variety of ailments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/ma...anted=all&_r=0
#25
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Non-starchy veggies are carbs too.
It's starch that's bad, not carbs.
To be more specific, high glycemic carbs (e.g. starch and sugar), are bad - i.e, how much they spike your blood sugar.
The blood sugar spikey effect of high glycemic carbs depends on other factors, - amount of starch, and amount of fat consumed in the same meal.
Individuals also vary in how many decades they can eat a high-starch diet before developing metabolic syndrome (one symptom of which, is visceral belly fat). Beer belly, anyone? "Soda belly" is the same thing.
Individuals also vary in how long they can eat a lot of gluten before suffering intestinal damage from it. Some people are very sensitive, and perhaps some can take modest amounts forever.
It's starch that's bad, not carbs.
To be more specific, high glycemic carbs (e.g. starch and sugar), are bad - i.e, how much they spike your blood sugar.
The blood sugar spikey effect of high glycemic carbs depends on other factors, - amount of starch, and amount of fat consumed in the same meal.
Individuals also vary in how many decades they can eat a high-starch diet before developing metabolic syndrome (one symptom of which, is visceral belly fat). Beer belly, anyone? "Soda belly" is the same thing.
Individuals also vary in how long they can eat a lot of gluten before suffering intestinal damage from it. Some people are very sensitive, and perhaps some can take modest amounts forever.
#26
Cpt. Slow
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,360
Total Cats: 1,184
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Inflammation does not equal edema, which I believe is the "heart" issue caused by "inflammation" you're referring to. It's a total body issue obviously, involving the kidneys, heart, lungs, etc, but yes, heart is the common failure leading to an over abundance of water in the body.
I participate as much as possible in a low carb diet, staying mostly away from candy, sugar, and pasta. That's about all I've changed. Lost 20 lbs that way with little exercise, which I desperately need to change.
And if I lived where I do and took beer out of my diet I would most likely be hung. There's a 24 pack from Costco in the fridge that's half gone after I bought it a week and a half ago.
I participate as much as possible in a low carb diet, staying mostly away from candy, sugar, and pasta. That's about all I've changed. Lost 20 lbs that way with little exercise, which I desperately need to change.
And if I lived where I do and took beer out of my diet I would most likely be hung. There's a 24 pack from Costco in the fridge that's half gone after I bought it a week and a half ago.
#28
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I like professional cycling related nutrition stuff.
How to Eat Like a Tour de France Pro | Cyclists International
"Here, eat this porridge and eggs, here eat this snack, ride this sex-pantehr $10k bike and floss, drink a tiny cola and eat more fatty awesomeness, urinate off the bike at speed, win, eat all this fruit, get a rub down, shave your legs with other men, spacedock."
How to Eat Like a Tour de France Pro | Cyclists International
"Here, eat this porridge and eggs, here eat this snack, ride this sex-pantehr $10k bike and floss, drink a tiny cola and eat more fatty awesomeness, urinate off the bike at speed, win, eat all this fruit, get a rub down, shave your legs with other men, spacedock."
#29
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Sugar and starch are not = energy. You can surely turn fat into energy.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).
However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during heavy exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will still go into your fat cells. But yes, after exercise, you can tolerate more high-glycemic carbs. Not before. At least that's what I found testing blood sugar on myself.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).
However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during heavy exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will still go into your fat cells. But yes, after exercise, you can tolerate more high-glycemic carbs. Not before. At least that's what I found testing blood sugar on myself.
Last edited by JasonC SBB; 10-04-2013 at 12:54 PM.
#33
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Grains contain "anti-nutrients". Ironically white rice may be better than brown rice in this regard, as long as not enough is consumed to cause a large blood sugar spike:
Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
#34
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Some info on whole grains.
Whole-Grain Foods Do Not Affect Insulin Sensitivity or Markers of Lipid Peroxidation and Inflammation in Healthy, Moderately Overweight Subjects
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con.../1522.full.pdf
Information on lectin (the anti-nutrient in many grains, including wheat):
Insulin-Like Activity of Concanavalin A and Wheat Germ Agglutinin
Do dietary lectins cause disease?
BMC Endocrine Disorders | Full text | Agrarian diet and diseases of affluence - Do evolutionary novel dietary lectins cause leptin resistance?
Research on gluten is advancing by leaps and bounds right now. Not only is the commonly thrown-around "1%" number probably quite a bit lower than the reality, because of how celiac disease is tested for in the US (hint: in western European nations with different testing protocols, celiac disease shows up in much higher percentages), but that's only referring to full-blown celiacs -- not to gluten sensitivity, which is a gamut of symptoms related to the inflammatory effects of wheat gluten. Estimates are hard to come by right now, but many researchers are saying that it's not unlikely that at least 25-33% of the population has some degree of mild to moderate gluten sensitivity.
Whole-Grain Foods Do Not Affect Insulin Sensitivity or Markers of Lipid Peroxidation and Inflammation in Healthy, Moderately Overweight Subjects
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con.../1522.full.pdf
Information on lectin (the anti-nutrient in many grains, including wheat):
Insulin-Like Activity of Concanavalin A and Wheat Germ Agglutinin
Do dietary lectins cause disease?
BMC Endocrine Disorders | Full text | Agrarian diet and diseases of affluence - Do evolutionary novel dietary lectins cause leptin resistance?
Research on gluten is advancing by leaps and bounds right now. Not only is the commonly thrown-around "1%" number probably quite a bit lower than the reality, because of how celiac disease is tested for in the US (hint: in western European nations with different testing protocols, celiac disease shows up in much higher percentages), but that's only referring to full-blown celiacs -- not to gluten sensitivity, which is a gamut of symptoms related to the inflammatory effects of wheat gluten. Estimates are hard to come by right now, but many researchers are saying that it's not unlikely that at least 25-33% of the population has some degree of mild to moderate gluten sensitivity.
#35
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Sugar and starch are not = energy.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).
However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will go into your fat cells.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).
However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will go into your fat cells.
Also, why do all these pro cyclist nutrionist allow or even promote a daily beer after a ride? I look at the diets of these apex athletes, with obscenely high fitness levels, and they're all eating grain and drinking beer.
#36
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Grains contain "anti-nutrients". Ironically white rice may be better than brown rice in this regard, as long as not enough is consumed to cause a large blood sugar spike:
Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
#38
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
My ideal meal plan that I sometimes skip on because I'm busy or run out of time:
1st meal: 5-6 eggs, protein shake, maybe a greek yogurt
2nd meal: a ham sandwich, whole grain bread, nuts or other snack.
3rd meal: chicken breast and golden rice (if im at work I have no choice but to get fast food. no such thing as good fast food but I try to get something relatively full of protein)
4th meal: protein shake and anything I can find at this point
5th meal(post workout): small snack, greek yogurt
I have a feeling I'm trying to do the opposite of what you guys are doing.
also carbs = energy, if i hit the gym with minimal carbs i burn out really quickly.
so yes i eat a lot of carbs
1st meal: 5-6 eggs, protein shake, maybe a greek yogurt
2nd meal: a ham sandwich, whole grain bread, nuts or other snack.
3rd meal: chicken breast and golden rice (if im at work I have no choice but to get fast food. no such thing as good fast food but I try to get something relatively full of protein)
4th meal: protein shake and anything I can find at this point
5th meal(post workout): small snack, greek yogurt
I have a feeling I'm trying to do the opposite of what you guys are doing.
also carbs = energy, if i hit the gym with minimal carbs i burn out really quickly.
so yes i eat a lot of carbs
Too few veggies.
Too much starch and grains.
You are also a sugar not a fat burner. If you train your body to be a fat burner you won't feel the need to eat more than 3x a day despite workouts. It takes 4-6 hours after a meal for your insulin to come back down to baseline. If you eat before then your body will preferentially keep and not burn its bodyfat reserves.
#40
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Why are you not recommending carbs before, during, and after exercise? If I didn't eat fruit and grain before and during a bike ride I would fall over dead, known as "bonking".
Also, why do all these pro cyclist nutrionist allow or even promote a daily beer after a ride? I look at the diets of these apex athletes, with obscenely high fitness levels, and they're all eating grain and drinking beer.
Also, why do all these pro cyclist nutrionist allow or even promote a daily beer after a ride? I look at the diets of these apex athletes, with obscenely high fitness levels, and they're all eating grain and drinking beer.