The new to me toy truck.
11-29-2011 | 01:22 AM
#65
Thread Starter
"Quality" is my first name.
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,598
Total Cats: 77
That may just be the case, I dont know. I dont care. I just want to be free of it even if I take a slight hit. No hit would be better but thats not how life works, or atleast my life.
Everyone has been saying lawyer up. That may be the case if they dont pay off the bank and return my truck. Ive been told to notify the police as well as there may be some sort of fraud. Either way, that takes time and energy and I really only want to expend that if they jerk me around.
As far as I know we dont have such a policy / legislation here. If you are Canadian u just get fucked. Thats it. As I said, I think I will be lucky walking away with a 1-2k hit on this truck. Worst case scenario is that I get no trucks back, no money back and I need to lawyer up.
For some reason I had no real rage until the majority owner piped up today. That's when I had the thought of getting into that X and driving it into his show room and over him. His attitude was tough luck, engines get changed all the time. I assure you this MFr wants to weasel his way out of paying the bank & me back. I could easily see tomorrow being a fruitless day of no truck, no calls and even screened if I call there. The 2 guys I dealt with were fine and concerned, the owner gave no *****. it is because of him that once I get paid I will really need to consider how I go about further posting this on the net.
Everyone has been saying lawyer up. That may be the case if they dont pay off the bank and return my truck. Ive been told to notify the police as well as there may be some sort of fraud. Either way, that takes time and energy and I really only want to expend that if they jerk me around.
For some reason I had no real rage until the majority owner piped up today. That's when I had the thought of getting into that X and driving it into his show room and over him. His attitude was tough luck, engines get changed all the time. I assure you this MFr wants to weasel his way out of paying the bank & me back. I could easily see tomorrow being a fruitless day of no truck, no calls and even screened if I call there. The 2 guys I dealt with were fine and concerned, the owner gave no *****. it is because of him that once I get paid I will really need to consider how I go about further posting this on the net.
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11-29-2011 | 10:20 AM
#68
Part of the law is intent. It really doesn't sound like this dealer intended to do any harm to Rick, so much as they did not show due diligence in their acquisition and subsequent marketing then sale of the vehicle. Neither did Rick though in his purchase of the vehicle. It's pretty easy to run a VIN on a used vehicle before purchasing it. Also various documents should have stated engine type, displacement, and fuel used (title and registration paperwork for instance).
The right thing to do is to refund 100% of the purchase and out of pocket expenses. Rick shouldn't be out a red cent--just undue it like it never happened.
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11-29-2011 | 03:48 PM
#69
Thread Starter
"Quality" is my first name.
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,598
Total Cats: 77
I have an update on this for later this evening. Off to get my son.
Quick notes..
trade in i have back
they wanted me to sign a contract / waiver
spent from 10am till 2:30 dealing with this.
he provided me a photocopy of the cheque he paid National Bank with.
I will have more scans tonight.
This was the vehicle
Quick notes..
trade in i have back
they wanted me to sign a contract / waiver
spent from 10am till 2:30 dealing with this.
he provided me a photocopy of the cheque he paid National Bank with.
I will have more scans tonight.
This was the vehicle
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11-29-2011 | 04:41 PM
#70
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 625
Total Cats: 22
From: DF-DUB
If **** goes down, lawyer up. I remeber something in the UCC about dealers to consumers. Pretty much the dealers since they are professionals are required to do their due diligence and consumers since they are not professionals are considered completely ignorant and the law is heavily weighted to the side of the uninformed consumer.
Example: I go to a dealer to buy a car and asked, has this been wrecked, guys says no because he is unaware that it has been, or maybe it has a clean carfax *ahem*. Then after purchasing the car it is found the thing has been wrecked, he is liable because he is the professional.
You see what I mean
Example: I go to a dealer to buy a car and asked, has this been wrecked, guys says no because he is unaware that it has been, or maybe it has a clean carfax *ahem*. Then after purchasing the car it is found the thing has been wrecked, he is liable because he is the professional.
You see what I mean
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11-30-2011 | 12:59 AM
#71
Thread Starter
"Quality" is my first name.
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,598
Total Cats: 77
First off, I was up all night dreaming up the worst case and how this was all going to go down. I knew tomorrow (today) wasn't going to go smooth, why would it.
At 10:19 am I got a call from the sales guy Duane. Basically my trade in was not going to be delivered to me because the owner felt there was too much liability in delivering the vehicle to me. So, the promise of making it easier for me was naturally broken. Now, I had to miss more time from work (no laughing Ventrilo people) and had to inconvenience my bro in law the painter to drive me.
10:45 I am on my way, I call them to let them know I will be there once I get through the morning bullshit traffic. Heaven forbid it rains a bit, every ******* drives 30 below the speed limit. What took me 18 minutes to get there monday took me 1.5 hours today. I also had to fill up the srt4, atleast its boosted and quick....in a traffic jam!
After arriving some of the basic paper work gets put out on the table. My trade in ownership back in my name, 3 sets of keys and a car fax for it. Naturally, they said the bank would be paid today as well but that guy (Mike) had not even arrived back yet. I speak to Duane about it and its clear to me that when I had said things like "it could be just a pieced together truck or a totally stolen chassis with a clean cab on it" that it had been bothering him, it came up a bit, we talked about how 'other dealers' are known to scam but they never ever would. They knew nothing about this. I questioned how the truck even passed a visual inspection during etest for a vin of gas but passed as diesel, stuff like that seemed odd.
The guy (Mike) with the bank paperwork shows up and begins the sales pitch of how they are victims here and that they are losing money, not just me. They will have to go through a great ordeal of trouble to make it right between them and the VW dealership the truck came from (i guess it was a trade in there).
The sales pitch is the same sales pitch as before, they are sorry, **** happens and on the bright side its all been discovered now. Atleast I am only out the $1000 instead of coming back 6 months later and having to deal with this.
"great news richard, sign this contract here releasing us of liabilities and you can take your trade in and go"...
Instant alarms went off in my head... i had to tell myself play it cool. I started making more convo about the bank paper work as he put more documents on the table, i scooped up my ownership, 3 sets of keys, copy of the bank payment and the half of ownership from the Xs plates so I could return the plates for money.
Of course, now that my pockets are stuffed full of my paperwork etc I begin to tactically rage at them asking how they figure I should sign anything when this is all their fault. The owner of the place (Alex) pops in and sits 10 feet behind me (3v1). I explained it was their responsibility not mine and there is no way in **** (think i said it just like that) that I would sign anything. "How do i know that bozo owner didn't damage my truck i traded in, he was pissed I brought the excursion back.... and if Alex has anything to add he can pull up a seat beside me instead of hiding back there"... Mike tells me they have contacted their UCDA (i think thats what he said) lawyers and they know they are 100% in the clear, nothing can happen to them. Naturally, being in that mood I told them i didnt give a **** how much money they had or who they called I wasn't signing **** and regardless of what their lawyers think I should do, I ain't doing it.
Mike told me he wasnt trying to pressure me but that it was a good idea for all parties involved to sign the paperwork. Alex ran off into his office and hid (though I suspect he called the desk as it rang and Duane hit a butotn..perhaps he was put on conf).
At this point I already knew it was time to leave. **** them was my internal vibe though not verbally expressed as of yet (and that will come still). We shook hands and the sales guy Mike says he will work with me on any future deals, Ford inspections upfront on a truck and a deal upon deal would be given. Mike said he swears to god he didn't know about the truck, I asked who his god was (I had a strong feeling he wasnt Christian & that his real name likely isnt Mike.) ... was more of a ***** at him to back what he was saying. We shook hands, I left. I was happy to be gone.
1 pm I call my wife. I am out of there. My old truck is below empty, of course.
Flip side, I was out some money and will be out even more on this deal but they did pull 2 dents on my old truck for me. Certainly not worth $700. They also sanded and sprayed the door in 1 spot, a **** job too!.
I called the bank, spoke to the rep that Mike delivered the cheque to, I wanted to make sure really happened. She acted shocked that I would even call and questions me. I told her when you get sold a truck with swapped vins you start to wonder about the people you deal with. "I know nothing about that" she said. loller, you do now.
My current vibe is that the owner really didn't care, at all. It certainly would have been easier for him to see me go away, or perhaps get caught up in some legal bs, he certainly seemed indifferent and didn't care what I thought.
I spoke of 'friends' commenting on the situation and they disregarded them and the comments, glad I didn't say it was forum peeps
I am not sure where I will go from here other than to wait and see if that debt is actually paid off. I am not feeling vengeful, I am feeling grateful to be away from this.
At 10:19 am I got a call from the sales guy Duane. Basically my trade in was not going to be delivered to me because the owner felt there was too much liability in delivering the vehicle to me. So, the promise of making it easier for me was naturally broken. Now, I had to miss more time from work (no laughing Ventrilo people) and had to inconvenience my bro in law the painter to drive me.
10:45 I am on my way, I call them to let them know I will be there once I get through the morning bullshit traffic. Heaven forbid it rains a bit, every ******* drives 30 below the speed limit. What took me 18 minutes to get there monday took me 1.5 hours today. I also had to fill up the srt4, atleast its boosted and quick....in a traffic jam!
After arriving some of the basic paper work gets put out on the table. My trade in ownership back in my name, 3 sets of keys and a car fax for it. Naturally, they said the bank would be paid today as well but that guy (Mike) had not even arrived back yet. I speak to Duane about it and its clear to me that when I had said things like "it could be just a pieced together truck or a totally stolen chassis with a clean cab on it" that it had been bothering him, it came up a bit, we talked about how 'other dealers' are known to scam but they never ever would. They knew nothing about this. I questioned how the truck even passed a visual inspection during etest for a vin of gas but passed as diesel, stuff like that seemed odd.
The guy (Mike) with the bank paperwork shows up and begins the sales pitch of how they are victims here and that they are losing money, not just me. They will have to go through a great ordeal of trouble to make it right between them and the VW dealership the truck came from (i guess it was a trade in there).
The sales pitch is the same sales pitch as before, they are sorry, **** happens and on the bright side its all been discovered now. Atleast I am only out the $1000 instead of coming back 6 months later and having to deal with this.
"great news richard, sign this contract here releasing us of liabilities and you can take your trade in and go"...
Instant alarms went off in my head... i had to tell myself play it cool. I started making more convo about the bank paper work as he put more documents on the table, i scooped up my ownership, 3 sets of keys, copy of the bank payment and the half of ownership from the Xs plates so I could return the plates for money.
Of course, now that my pockets are stuffed full of my paperwork etc I begin to tactically rage at them asking how they figure I should sign anything when this is all their fault. The owner of the place (Alex) pops in and sits 10 feet behind me (3v1). I explained it was their responsibility not mine and there is no way in **** (think i said it just like that) that I would sign anything. "How do i know that bozo owner didn't damage my truck i traded in, he was pissed I brought the excursion back.... and if Alex has anything to add he can pull up a seat beside me instead of hiding back there"... Mike tells me they have contacted their UCDA (i think thats what he said) lawyers and they know they are 100% in the clear, nothing can happen to them. Naturally, being in that mood I told them i didnt give a **** how much money they had or who they called I wasn't signing **** and regardless of what their lawyers think I should do, I ain't doing it.
Mike told me he wasnt trying to pressure me but that it was a good idea for all parties involved to sign the paperwork. Alex ran off into his office and hid (though I suspect he called the desk as it rang and Duane hit a butotn..perhaps he was put on conf).
At this point I already knew it was time to leave. **** them was my internal vibe though not verbally expressed as of yet (and that will come still). We shook hands and the sales guy Mike says he will work with me on any future deals, Ford inspections upfront on a truck and a deal upon deal would be given. Mike said he swears to god he didn't know about the truck, I asked who his god was (I had a strong feeling he wasnt Christian & that his real name likely isnt Mike.) ... was more of a ***** at him to back what he was saying. We shook hands, I left. I was happy to be gone.
1 pm I call my wife. I am out of there. My old truck is below empty, of course.
Flip side, I was out some money and will be out even more on this deal but they did pull 2 dents on my old truck for me. Certainly not worth $700. They also sanded and sprayed the door in 1 spot, a **** job too!.
I called the bank, spoke to the rep that Mike delivered the cheque to, I wanted to make sure really happened. She acted shocked that I would even call and questions me. I told her when you get sold a truck with swapped vins you start to wonder about the people you deal with. "I know nothing about that" she said. loller, you do now.
My current vibe is that the owner really didn't care, at all. It certainly would have been easier for him to see me go away, or perhaps get caught up in some legal bs, he certainly seemed indifferent and didn't care what I thought.
I spoke of 'friends' commenting on the situation and they disregarded them and the comments, glad I didn't say it was forum peeps
I am not sure where I will go from here other than to wait and see if that debt is actually paid off. I am not feeling vengeful, I am feeling grateful to be away from this.
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11-30-2011 | 01:42 AM
#72
That phone **** is a common trick.
GF and I were in an office buying her Mazda 3. In the show room, music was playing. Dude leaves to find out how much our trade-in is worth, and a minute later we barely hear the music playing over the speaker phone. We suspect they're listening, say "we'll walk away if they offer anything over $5,000". And low and behold they walk in with a $5,000 offer. Thankfully we only wanted $4,000.
Car dealers are ****. If you find a honest one, I applaud you.
GF and I were in an office buying her Mazda 3. In the show room, music was playing. Dude leaves to find out how much our trade-in is worth, and a minute later we barely hear the music playing over the speaker phone. We suspect they're listening, say "we'll walk away if they offer anything over $5,000". And low and behold they walk in with a $5,000 offer. Thankfully we only wanted $4,000.
Car dealers are ****. If you find a honest one, I applaud you.
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11-30-2011 | 12:02 PM
#75
Thread Starter
"Quality" is my first name.
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,598
Total Cats: 77
Yea, no 6.0 which everyone hates, even beyond MT.
And no shaft with a **** *** truck that's pieced together. Despite how bad this all was I did in the end luck out .
Without Savs jinxing none of this could have happened.
While I dont know 100% that the cheque they wrote will clear, I am pretty certain it will. Trust me, I am happy to be out of this mess...
The vin was from the cab and back of the cluster (believe the tech said the vin there matched as well).
I have no idea what the vin was on the chassis, by the time that even came up they already had taken possession of the truck. The tech did say the chassis was different so if it is vinned its got to be different, i just dont know if its in the clear.
When I finally got to hold their carfax of it i flipped through and seen it said
Gas, v10 and gray. My ownership said Beige, Diesel v8.
They tried to reason with me that people swap motors all the time, like a guy might put a bigger honda motor into a civic for more horse power (serious, that said that).
And no shaft with a **** *** truck that's pieced together. Despite how bad this all was I did in the end luck out .
Without Savs jinxing none of this could have happened.
While I dont know 100% that the cheque they wrote will clear, I am pretty certain it will. Trust me, I am happy to be out of this mess...
I have no idea what the vin was on the chassis, by the time that even came up they already had taken possession of the truck. The tech did say the chassis was different so if it is vinned its got to be different, i just dont know if its in the clear.
When I finally got to hold their carfax of it i flipped through and seen it said
Gas, v10 and gray. My ownership said Beige, Diesel v8.
They tried to reason with me that people swap motors all the time, like a guy might put a bigger honda motor into a civic for more horse power (serious, that said that).
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