The "dietary fat/cholesterol causes heart disease" myth
#41
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Good for you then.
And yet despite the fact that you admit that there is no real evidence of toxic effects from mycotoxin in coffee you chose to believe that my real point in my original post was that environmental toxins don't exist rather than his claims of harmful effects from them are unfounded.
#42
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Mark, if the bulletproof coffee guy is correct about butter, it is purely by accident.
If there are any actual studies about the levels of mycotoxins in brewed coffee I would love to see them. Until then, I will continue to assume it is the same snake oil as everything else advertized as "toxin free" like those "toxin removing foot pads."
In fact 2 minutes of googling shows me that mold will lower the grade of a coffee anyway. So if you aren't drinking store-brand coffee you probably aren't getting any mold either.
If there are any actual studies about the levels of mycotoxins in brewed coffee I would love to see them. Until then, I will continue to assume it is the same snake oil as everything else advertized as "toxin free" like those "toxin removing foot pads."
In fact 2 minutes of googling shows me that mold will lower the grade of a coffee anyway. So if you aren't drinking store-brand coffee you probably aren't getting any mold either.
Only, he doesn't believe the toxins are harmful. Really.
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p.s. How dare you equate one claim of toxins with another. How is that good science?
#43
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And yet despite the fact that you admit that there is no real evidence of toxic effects from mycotoxin in coffee you chose to believe that my real point in my original post was that environmental toxins don't exist rather than his claims of harmful effects from them are unfounded.
So call it 50/50 now. Half reductionist, half poor communicator.
#44
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Yes. Well, kind of. I didn't expect that you'd really argue against the existence of toxins. What I expected (and I appear to be correct) is that you rather overstated your case in your attempt to discredit Mr. Bulletproof Midichlorian and then had to backtrack and claim that I should have somehow divined from the larger context that what you wrote below isn't really what you meant.
So call it 50/50 now. Half reductionist, half poor communicator.
So call it 50/50 now. Half reductionist, half poor communicator.
Who exactly is the poor communicator here?
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#45
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In the meantime, I get to drink really tasty coffee brewed from freshly-roasted high-quality beans from my local roaster, so it's not exactly a bother.
#48
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Will you lay off it already? Nobody here is saying that guy's special coffee is better or has fewer toxins.
What I *did* notice is that the coffee+butter+coconut oil combo seems to give me a buzz over and beyond just the caffeine content - I've had to reduce the amount of coffee, and the buzz seems to last me til 3 PM.
Let's discuss the bullshit diet/lipid hypothesis.
#49
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Dammit, I posted a link because it is a tasty healthy RECIPE, not because of its mycotoxin claims.
Will you lay off it already? Nobody here is saying that guy's special coffee is better or has fewer toxins.
What I *did* notice is that the coffee+butter+coconut oil combo seems to give me a buzz over and beyond just the caffeine content - I've had to reduce the amount of coffee, and the buzz seems to last me til 3 PM.
Let's discuss the bullshit diet/lipid hypothesis.
Will you lay off it already? Nobody here is saying that guy's special coffee is better or has fewer toxins.
What I *did* notice is that the coffee+butter+coconut oil combo seems to give me a buzz over and beyond just the caffeine content - I've had to reduce the amount of coffee, and the buzz seems to last me til 3 PM.
Let's discuss the bullshit diet/lipid hypothesis.
#50
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The bigger question is, how did the research community get it so wrong for so long?
I think it's because too few understand Karl Popper's teachings.
Karl Popper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Many researchers and the vast majority of people do not understand the logical relationship between evidence and theory. Evidence properly used is always falsifying, never confirmatory. "Supporting evidence points in all directions at once, and therefore points usefully in no direction."
That is, after one has come up with a hypothesis that has some confirming evidence, one should design experiments that try to falsify the hypothesis. If evidence appears that falsifies the hypothesis, then one should go back and reject or refine the hypothesis.
Instead, it is a human tendency to try to "prove" a hypothesis correct. Confirmation bias sets in, and people end up rejecting data that would have falsified the hypothesis. In the case of the diet/lipid hypothesis, this went on for decades.
In this interview, Gary Taubes discusses Karl Popper's method, and the confirmation bias, in the history of nutrition research:
Taubes on Fat, Sugar and Scientific Discovery | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
I think it's because too few understand Karl Popper's teachings.
Karl Popper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Many researchers and the vast majority of people do not understand the logical relationship between evidence and theory. Evidence properly used is always falsifying, never confirmatory. "Supporting evidence points in all directions at once, and therefore points usefully in no direction."
That is, after one has come up with a hypothesis that has some confirming evidence, one should design experiments that try to falsify the hypothesis. If evidence appears that falsifies the hypothesis, then one should go back and reject or refine the hypothesis.
Instead, it is a human tendency to try to "prove" a hypothesis correct. Confirmation bias sets in, and people end up rejecting data that would have falsified the hypothesis. In the case of the diet/lipid hypothesis, this went on for decades.
In this interview, Gary Taubes discusses Karl Popper's method, and the confirmation bias, in the history of nutrition research:
Taubes on Fat, Sugar and Scientific Discovery | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
#51
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LOLz if you listen to the first interview I linked,
314: Chris Masterjohn On The Health Benefits Of Cholesterol | The Livin La Vida Low-Carb Show
you will understand that
a) what would have been a fairly simple error grew legs when the government's resources got behind it ("eat low fat" campaign, and the Dep't of Agri's Food Pyramid with starch/grains at the base)
b) gov't research groups and gov't grant money decision makers are NOT unbiased:
At this point, can anyone imagine the Dep't of Agriculture withdrawing their POS food pyramid with a statement "We are sorry for giving bad advice for 40 years and all the deaths and heart attacks it caused"? Or the AHA doing the same?
314: Chris Masterjohn On The Health Benefits Of Cholesterol | The Livin La Vida Low-Carb Show
you will understand that
a) what would have been a fairly simple error grew legs when the government's resources got behind it ("eat low fat" campaign, and the Dep't of Agri's Food Pyramid with starch/grains at the base)
b) gov't research groups and gov't grant money decision makers are NOT unbiased:
At this point, can anyone imagine the Dep't of Agriculture withdrawing their POS food pyramid with a statement "We are sorry for giving bad advice for 40 years and all the deaths and heart attacks it caused"? Or the AHA doing the same?
#53
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I thought it was funny too until Harv kept harping on it after you clarified your position.
You should also avoid refined industrial seed and vegetable oils. e.g. Soybean, Canola, Corn, Safflower, Sunflower oil et al...
Use butter for sauteeing veggies and frying eggs, and coconut oil, lard, ghee, duck fat or tallow for high temperature frying.
Olive oil or black currant seed oil for salads.
You should also avoid refined industrial seed and vegetable oils. e.g. Soybean, Canola, Corn, Safflower, Sunflower oil et al...
Use butter for sauteeing veggies and frying eggs, and coconut oil, lard, ghee, duck fat or tallow for high temperature frying.
Olive oil or black currant seed oil for salads.
#54
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The bigger question is, how did the research community get it so wrong for so long?
I think it's because too few understand Karl Popper's teachings.
Karl Popper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Many researchers and the vast majority of people do not understand the logical relationship between evidence and theory. Evidence properly used is always falsifying, never confirmatory. "Supporting evidence points in all directions at once, and therefore points usefully in no direction."
That is, after one has come up with a hypothesis that has some confirming evidence, one should design experiments that try to falsify the hypothesis. If evidence appears that falsifies the hypothesis, then one should go back and reject or refine the hypothesis.
Instead, it is a human tendency to try to "prove" a hypothesis correct. Confirmation bias sets in, and people end up rejecting data that would have falsified the hypothesis. In the case of the diet/lipid hypothesis, this went on for decades.
In this interview, Gary Taubes discusses Karl Popper's method, and the confirmation bias, in the history of nutrition research:
Taubes on Fat, Sugar and Scientific Discovery | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
I think it's because too few understand Karl Popper's teachings.
Karl Popper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Many researchers and the vast majority of people do not understand the logical relationship between evidence and theory. Evidence properly used is always falsifying, never confirmatory. "Supporting evidence points in all directions at once, and therefore points usefully in no direction."
That is, after one has come up with a hypothesis that has some confirming evidence, one should design experiments that try to falsify the hypothesis. If evidence appears that falsifies the hypothesis, then one should go back and reject or refine the hypothesis.
Instead, it is a human tendency to try to "prove" a hypothesis correct. Confirmation bias sets in, and people end up rejecting data that would have falsified the hypothesis. In the case of the diet/lipid hypothesis, this went on for decades.
In this interview, Gary Taubes discusses Karl Popper's method, and the confirmation bias, in the history of nutrition research:
Taubes on Fat, Sugar and Scientific Discovery | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
#55
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Re: high energy physics
Gary Taubes, one of the guys who has written books on the myth of the diet/lipid hypothesis, has written an earlier book on the same dynamic happening in the high energy physics world:
Nobel Dreams: Power, Deceit, and the Ultimate Experiment: Gary Taubes: 9780394545035: Amazon.com: Books
The book ended up being an exposé. There was one character in particular who was key... just like Ancel Keys was in nutrition.
Taubes calls it a "misinformation cascade" leading to a false consensus:
Diet and Fat: A Severe Case of Mistaken Consensus
Gary Taubes, one of the guys who has written books on the myth of the diet/lipid hypothesis, has written an earlier book on the same dynamic happening in the high energy physics world:
![Nobel Dreams: Power, Deceit, and the Ultimate Experiment: Gary Taubes: 9780394545035: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/misc/amazon_icon.gif)
The book ended up being an exposé. There was one character in particular who was key... just like Ancel Keys was in nutrition.
Taubes calls it a "misinformation cascade" leading to a false consensus:
Diet and Fat: A Severe Case of Mistaken Consensus
#59
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Or do they?
A) I'm not sure that's accurate.
B) Not everyone motivated by profit is corrupt. That doesn't mean the profit motive doesn't corrupt some.
Police departments aren't "profit motivated" but they sure do lie and cheat.
B) Not everyone motivated by profit is corrupt. That doesn't mean the profit motive doesn't corrupt some.