What to fix on my Fuel System?
#103
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You was right. I did some testing today, found two big problems with the setup that explains both the low power and high duty cycles. Sucks cause I gotta do some redesigning to fix it, but should help get the power up.
#105
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My SC inlet is too small restricting airflow into the SC at high RPM, and my idea of installing a second intercooler to knock down air temps (which it did do very well) turned out to be a huge restriction when I swapped to the 2.59:1 pulley ratio. Now trying to figure out how to put a pair of 75mm throttle bodies on the back of this thing and still be able to shut the hood. I was showing 37.4 PSI boost at the outlet of the SC despite the vacuum it's pulling on the 3" throttle setup.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/155963-what-fix-my-fuel-system-secondary%2520map_intake%2520plenum_zpsfzrm9ptk.png?dateline=1448521434)
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![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/155964-what-fix-my-fuel-system-secondary%2520map_sc%2520inlet_zpsvvrinfde.png?dateline=1448521434)
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#109
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Bolt in wilwood: Miata Race Master Cylinder kit
Non bolt in Madjak style: https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...-delete-86683/
Ex. Install
Non bolt in Madjak style: https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...-delete-86683/
Ex. Install
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Last edited by aidandj; 11-26-2015 at 02:48 AM.
#110
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I'm just finishing the dual master setup tonight so I can give you some feedback on it soon. If you ran the wilwood short masters you'd have heaps of room even without remote reservoirs.
I'm also making a booster delete mounting plate that keeps the stock tandem master, but looses the booster. It would move the master back enough for you to clear the ducting. The idea is to lift the master cylinder up 20-30mm so you can run a 6:1 pedal ratio instead of the stock 4:1. I haven't tested it but if you are keen I could send you the CAD if want to give it a shot. There are far less mods to the stock pedal box than my dual master setup, it just needs some material removed so the master cylinder doesn't hit the frame and a new hole in the pedal. It will also need a lengthened pushrod but that's pretty easy.
This is a street car though so I'm not 100% sure if removing the booster is a great idea. On the track no booster is fine, but when in traffic I could see it being too hard to live with. I'm also not sure if moving to a 6:1 pedal will induce too much travel... I run Ferodo pads which are like rocks so I have very little pedal travel as it is.
Awesome car btw...
I'm also making a booster delete mounting plate that keeps the stock tandem master, but looses the booster. It would move the master back enough for you to clear the ducting. The idea is to lift the master cylinder up 20-30mm so you can run a 6:1 pedal ratio instead of the stock 4:1. I haven't tested it but if you are keen I could send you the CAD if want to give it a shot. There are far less mods to the stock pedal box than my dual master setup, it just needs some material removed so the master cylinder doesn't hit the frame and a new hole in the pedal. It will also need a lengthened pushrod but that's pretty easy.
This is a street car though so I'm not 100% sure if removing the booster is a great idea. On the track no booster is fine, but when in traffic I could see it being too hard to live with. I'm also not sure if moving to a 6:1 pedal will induce too much travel... I run Ferodo pads which are like rocks so I have very little pedal travel as it is.
Awesome car btw...
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I'm not sure how you are running out of fuel. I'm making close to 100 more HP than you are with a Whipple supercharger, 1000cc injectors, one intercooler, one 75mm throttle body and a single fuel pump.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
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And this is the Supercharger oil you should be running (if you aren't already)
JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store
Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.
I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store
Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.
I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
#113
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The car may be choking and that may be killing power, but it still doesn't explain the fueling issue, because if anything that should be causing you to use a lot less fuel. flow = power = fuel
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank
and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.
the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank
and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.
the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
#114
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I'm not sure how you are running out of fuel. I'm making close to 100 more HP than you are with a Whipple supercharger, 1000cc injectors, one intercooler, one 75mm throttle body and a single fuel pump.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
I believe I have my SC pullied up higher than you do, I'm running a 2.59:1 ratio.
If you'd be willing to answer a few tuning questions I'd love to ask you a few.
And this is the Supercharger oil you should be running (if you aren't already)
JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store
Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.
I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store
Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.
I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
The car may be choking and that may be killing power, but it still doesn't explain the fueling issue, because if anything that should be causing you to use a lot less fuel. flow = power = fuel
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank
and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.
the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank
and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.
the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
I don't think it's tremendously overcomplicated just yet. The second IC was complicated, but it's laying on the carport now as that was a failure. Otherwise I don't think anything on the SC setup is really complicated? But yes I do want simple/reliable, that makes the car fun to drive when you can actually drive it.
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#115
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I'll gladly help you.
I run a ATI lower pulley and a 67mm upper pulley, I spin my motor 8,000 RPM. I use a single Walbro 255lph HP pump and ID 1000cc injectors. Up until this week I was running the stock 5/16ths Fuel line.
Here's my timing Map:
Here's my VE Table
I run a ATI lower pulley and a 67mm upper pulley, I spin my motor 8,000 RPM. I use a single Walbro 255lph HP pump and ID 1000cc injectors. Up until this week I was running the stock 5/16ths Fuel line.
Here's my timing Map:
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/155992-what-fix-my-fuel-system-timing%2520map%2520-%2520whipple_zpszwm85abq.png?dateline=1448584592)
Here's my VE Table
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/155993-what-fix-my-fuel-system-ve%2520table%2520whipple_zpsmpfkjwkb.png?dateline=1448584592)
#119
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Thanks for the info and help! One thing, I believe you are on C16, right? I'm on E85, so I think I'm gonna be spraying more of it to make the same power since E85's takes more of it. Do you know what duty cycle you are at on your setup? And what fuel pressure? I run ID 1000's at 60 PSI with a 1:1 regulator.
I got rid of the mess that was intercooler 2, and now have a 1 piece pipe that goes from the intercooler exit to the dummy TB.
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#120
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I honestly have no idea on the pressure. I was actually still using the stock NA Fuel pressure regulator. So what ever that worked out to.
I'll need to search through my email but I should have the data log from the dyno pull I posted earlier.
Yea, I am on C16 but David made similar power to my setup on E85 with basically the same fuel system I have.
It is important to note that the dyno graph I posted was from DIYAutoTune's dyno which has shown to read @ 11% - 13% more conservative than a "EgoJet" with the same car on the same day.
I'll need to search through my email but I should have the data log from the dyno pull I posted earlier.
Yea, I am on C16 but David made similar power to my setup on E85 with basically the same fuel system I have.
It is important to note that the dyno graph I posted was from DIYAutoTune's dyno which has shown to read @ 11% - 13% more conservative than a "EgoJet" with the same car on the same day.