track reliability psychotherapy
#61
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
dude....you picked the perfect platform to build a race car out of:
1. Responsive
2. Dependable
3. Easy to mod
4. Cheap to replace
AND you made it as dependable as possible. Now you are just trying to eliminate statistics...which will never happen.
Enjoy it and don't worry...or it'll just hurt worse when something does happen.
1. Responsive
2. Dependable
3. Easy to mod
4. Cheap to replace
AND you made it as dependable as possible. Now you are just trying to eliminate statistics...which will never happen.
Enjoy it and don't worry...or it'll just hurt worse when something does happen.
#62
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Me for one. I've got 23K miles on the car in the since going turbo. I've done 10-12 track days. 4 of those were at a track 2 1/2 hours away with 3+ hours of track time each day. Every track day I drove the Miata there and back, no trailer, with the r-comps wedged into the trunk opening.
94 with stock motor, stock 5 spd, stock torsen, way heavier than stock, Corrado rotor upgrade, S4 with 2860 running 12psi, dyno'd lots of tuning ago at 241 on a mustang. Other that loose turbo studs and letting brakes go metal to metal I've had no issues. GPS datalogging has steady state cornering at 1.3 g's on my r-comps. No knocksense, no egt gauge.
Have never been stranded. Could I have broken something? Certainly. Rod through the block, torsen salad, tranny gears. What's important is nothing has happened and you have all the right stuff upgraded. If I had your set up I'd be fearless.
I always figured if something bad happened, odds were pretty good someone would volunteer to help out, putting my car on their trailer to bring home. I've seen this happen quite a few times. You've gotta be a real ***** for other guys not to help out if they can. Maybe that helpful attitude is an Oregonian thing.
The only cure I can suggest is Paxil, Zoloft or Prozac. You might also want to check out this website...
Paranoia: Cause, Symptoms, Treatment and Cure of Paranoia
94 with stock motor, stock 5 spd, stock torsen, way heavier than stock, Corrado rotor upgrade, S4 with 2860 running 12psi, dyno'd lots of tuning ago at 241 on a mustang. Other that loose turbo studs and letting brakes go metal to metal I've had no issues. GPS datalogging has steady state cornering at 1.3 g's on my r-comps. No knocksense, no egt gauge.
Have never been stranded. Could I have broken something? Certainly. Rod through the block, torsen salad, tranny gears. What's important is nothing has happened and you have all the right stuff upgraded. If I had your set up I'd be fearless.
I always figured if something bad happened, odds were pretty good someone would volunteer to help out, putting my car on their trailer to bring home. I've seen this happen quite a few times. You've gotta be a real ***** for other guys not to help out if they can. Maybe that helpful attitude is an Oregonian thing.
The only cure I can suggest is Paxil, Zoloft or Prozac. You might also want to check out this website...
Paranoia: Cause, Symptoms, Treatment and Cure of Paranoia
Thanks, this is what I needed to hear...I guess it can be done. I had such a bad experience with VW and audi that I'm paranoid for good reason.
Oh ****, I have real paranoia. I just kind of decided last night that I should not expect my car to make it home from TWS and stayed home.
#63
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Your baller built and v-banded **** big time
![Does Not Equal](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/notequal.gif)
#64
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,847
Total Cats: 27
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
If fear of annihilating the differential or transmission due to overheating of the lubricant is really that big a deal, I can't imagine it would be terribly difficult to rig up oil coolers for both.
The factory has already provided you with convenient ports to use for getting the fluid in and out. Just need to find the right mating connectors. Hint: plumb in reverse- draw fluid out the top hole, return it to the bottom hole. This will prevent (or at least delay) fluid loss should you pop a hose. Overfill the system slightly, and away you go.
You can buy electric pumps rated for use with hot oil- the M/C turbo guys use 'em a lot. Example: Electric Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps
The factory has already provided you with convenient ports to use for getting the fluid in and out. Just need to find the right mating connectors. Hint: plumb in reverse- draw fluid out the top hole, return it to the bottom hole. This will prevent (or at least delay) fluid loss should you pop a hose. Overfill the system slightly, and away you go.
You can buy electric pumps rated for use with hot oil- the M/C turbo guys use 'em a lot. Example: Electric Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps
To answer the question about why the transmission and differential get hot, it is due to the inherent inefficiency in any mechanical system. The transmission and diff have mechanical friction, among other things, that rob power, which is manifested in the form of heat.
In fact, the typical rules of thumb are that powertrain losses are between 10-20% from the flywheel to the tires. Most of that is being lost as heat in the trans and diff. That is why they get hot. So say a Turbo 1.8 engine has 250 BHP, and there is 15% drivetrain loss. That means the trans and diff are creating somewhere around 28 KW of heat. To put it in perspective, that is like 28 hairdryers, or 280 lightbulbs (@ 100W each). No wonder they get hot.
As far as the need for cooling, I cannot answer that. However based on what I am reading on Ford IRS differentials, even the aluminum housing one like I have in the LS1 Miata, diff coolers are almost a given at the track for long sessions. The easy way to go seems to be with the electric pump based DYI setup. I have seen some stupid high prices on turn-key mechanical-pump-based kits, like several thousand dollars.
The only way to know for sure is to install an oil temp gauge in the trans and diff, and hit the track. Easy to do with $100 and some elbow grease. I am thinking about it myself.
On the other discussion... Get a daily driver, and a car trailer. Once you start doing track days/racing, a dedicated vehicle and a way to haul it is pretty much the way to go for all the reasons mentioned. In the mean time, get an AAA card, seriously.
#65
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
,
Thanks, this is what I needed to hear...I guess it can be done. I had such a bad experience with VW and audi that I'm paranoid for good reason.
Oh ****, I have real paranoia. I just kind of decided last night that I should not expect my car to make it home from TWS and stayed home.
Thanks, this is what I needed to hear...I guess it can be done. I had such a bad experience with VW and audi that I'm paranoid for good reason.
Oh ****, I have real paranoia. I just kind of decided last night that I should not expect my car to make it home from TWS and stayed home.
You can add to that a whole lot of other guys here. Sure people break stuff and have been stranded but what percentage is that out of total users and total track time?
Tracking late model VW's and Audi's would make anyone paranoid. That crap breaks when modded and pushed hard. Of course my wife just bought an 09 TT coupe! Wait. Is that paranoia tapping on my shoulder?
Last edited by cueball1; 10-09-2009 at 06:04 PM.
#66
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
+1, dude you need therapy. I just ran my car at Spa today for hours. Needs fuel a few times a day, that is it. Oh, and brake pads
I seem to vaporize XP12s in two half day events, of which one was wet.
Download tech.pdf from Emilio with your pre-track-day checks and live by it. Add your own stuff.
During the winter I have some larger overhauls planned, like the torsen swap, brake cooling, and will fix anything broken.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Download tech.pdf from Emilio with your pre-track-day checks and live by it. Add your own stuff.
During the winter I have some larger overhauls planned, like the torsen swap, brake cooling, and will fix anything broken.
#68
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,260
Total Cats: 5
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I annihilated my pads with my stock calipers in 3 laps at thunder hill! and almost hit a nice porsche thats when I got the big brake kit, love it pads last about 4-6 track days depending on the track. they are much beefyer than the stockers.
#69
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I've heard lots of good duralility statements about Porterfields but haven't run them. I've been OK on Carbotechs and the track I've been running at lately isn't that hard on brakes.
#70
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm trying old-school Hawk blue on the front until I get my BBK, going to run DTC-30 in the rear. I'd like to run the xp12's again if I can get more than 2-days on them. However, with the quick-change awesomeness, I'll run a racepad up front and swap for streeters when I put the street rubber back on.
#71
Tour de Franzia
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
As for reliability, I guess I'll just drive this ****** until it blows-up, then leave it, and start over when I get home. I've put so much heart into it, what else can I do? I guess I can either put AC back in and make it a daily and always wish I were man enough to track it, or love and lose.
#72
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No, it's the partsman from the dealership, needing you to pay your bill for that DSG electro-hydraulic thingymabob.
As a driver with an A1 VW (that is presently down), I feel the OP's pain. As a result, I have yet to take this pickup out to the SCCA to show that it can indeed really handle, mostly because it has not always been as reliable as my GTI. When I get the GTI up and running, I will take it out for sure, everything on it is new! But when I get the Miata running, I will take it easy. It has sat for nearly 4 years, no telling what will rattle loose. Small steps, that is my suggestion. Drive the car with mechanical sympathy, and push a little at a time. That's all you would do to a GF/Wife, if you -really- loved her, right?
![big grin](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
G/L
#75
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I think this is a little flipped around.
If you can't afford to wad the car up and walk away from it, you shouldn't take it on the track.
A Miata without a turbo is a reliable, easy track car. Brakes, fluid, rollbar and you're there.
A Miata with a turbo is a moneypit for the track. A Miata with a turbo with a poor owner is something you should be afraid to take to the track.
I've been in a car that hit the wall. If you can't throw the car away and walk away... use a different car. Drive the turbo car everywhere and put your NA car on the track.
Less fun? Maybe. It will give you peace of mind, a more full wallet and make you a better driver though.
Look at all the shiney things you put on the car. Imagine them all crumpled up. A rollover will starve an engine and lock it up. A front crash will kill your suspension, radiator, maybe your turbo, manifold... could go on. Just look at all the time and money you put into the car and imagine having to walk away from it crushed and crumpled.
Cheap track car is a good idea.
If you can't afford to wad the car up and walk away from it, you shouldn't take it on the track.
A Miata without a turbo is a reliable, easy track car. Brakes, fluid, rollbar and you're there.
A Miata with a turbo is a moneypit for the track. A Miata with a turbo with a poor owner is something you should be afraid to take to the track.
I've been in a car that hit the wall. If you can't throw the car away and walk away... use a different car. Drive the turbo car everywhere and put your NA car on the track.
Less fun? Maybe. It will give you peace of mind, a more full wallet and make you a better driver though.
Look at all the shiney things you put on the car. Imagine them all crumpled up. A rollover will starve an engine and lock it up. A front crash will kill your suspension, radiator, maybe your turbo, manifold... could go on. Just look at all the time and money you put into the car and imagine having to walk away from it crushed and crumpled.
Cheap track car is a good idea.
#78
Boost Pope
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/supporter1.gif)
![](/mt2011/images_td/ranks/smod.png)
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,340
Total Cats: 6,793
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
One option would be to mount it in the stock location, if you have the space, and runs lines back to the trans. It won't be creating much load on the engine as it won't be pumping against a restriction.
Another, and I'm totally serious, would be to mount a driving pulley for it on either the propshaft or the axles. On the propshaft could be done by sliding it over from the transmission side, and securing it with the four bolts that hold the shaft to the diff. On the axles would be similar, assuming you have two-piece axles. This is actually how a lot of big-money guys (like NASCAR) do it.
Or this: Pegasus - Oil/Water Cooler Pump, 12volt 2 gpm
#79
![Default](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The ghetto part, or the destroy trans part? The trans relies on the input shaft spinning for some of it's oiling. The input shaft will not spin/not spin at a reasonable speed if the car is coasting along in neutral. Is this a wive's tale? Are you willing to find out? Plus, most dollies aren't low enough to tow a lowered miata well. And the rear will probably drag. I have a good sized dolly and a deck over axle 24' trailer at my immediate disposal, and a 09 Silverado. I drive my miata to the track for a reason.