ITT you will post the most outrageous radiators
07-10-2009 | 10:22 AM
#43
If I were beaten, I'd want it to be by a faster driver, not faster equipment.
$50k? That's frightening. The car does look good, but those tires look like 70 series side walls, lots of ride height, and that diffuser would look right if it was tucked up into the car... maybe that's why the car is sitting high?
What series is he running? Seems odd that moving from one DOT race radial to another would make for a class change.
$50k? That's frightening. The car does look good, but those tires look like 70 series side walls, lots of ride height, and that diffuser would look right if it was tucked up into the car... maybe that's why the car is sitting high?
What series is he running? Seems odd that moving from one DOT race radial to another would make for a class change.
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07-10-2009 | 10:52 AM
#45
OK, I thought the R888 was the new Toyo R1 "replacement" tire for spec miata (which I ran on recently).
Speaking of turbo Miatas and time trials. - anybody remember the AIM Tuning stock motor turbo'd Miata? They posted here, way back. They were stomping a lot of these super cars- and were running a modified class. I don't recall any major issues with the car, like overheating.
Speaking of turbo Miatas and time trials. - anybody remember the AIM Tuning stock motor turbo'd Miata? They posted here, way back. They were stomping a lot of these super cars- and were running a modified class. I don't recall any major issues with the car, like overheating.
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07-10-2009 | 01:40 PM
#48
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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From: Austin, TX yall
I'm not convinced Evans overall helps cooling even though I have it and use it - in theory it helps prevent ping despite higher coolant temps. I added it at the time I changed to GTX pistons and 8.4 overall c/r so I didn't do 1 change at a time. What I do notice is that I don't get the "Mr. Coffee" sounds at shutdown, and I run a 5 psi cap, which means the propensity for leaks is a lot lower. I don't recall having a leak with Evans despite old hoses lol.
I've only seen one article with a seemingly proper test, on a modded Honduh, and they claim they indeed got more advance before ping on a dyno on a hot day; they'd turned down the fans or something to get the coolant hot. I've never seen another article corroborate this. GRM had one article - it was part of a 5.0 Mustang buildup. They described it, but no followups. I posted on the site to ask how it did and they said "it seemed to work, but we sold the car, and as far as we know it's still fine". This seeming lack of proper testing on Evans coolant is pretty puzzling. Their website sucks too - it looks like it hasn't been updated in years. If I were them I'd get magazines to test their ****.
Using Evans and a reverse flow electric pump, seems to be synergistic. The complexity however .... BTW Autospeed.com got threatened with a lawsuit by the Davies Craig electric pump guys. Rumor is that they tested their "more hp" claims, saw none, then DC shut them up. Stupid, because part of the test could have been to see if the flow was adequate in a typical setup... and then you have the potential to run reverse flow. Who cares about 2 hp if the reverse flow allows 2 psi more boost at MBT.
I think 240*F coolant temps are OK, IF you don't have ping. But if you see 240*F now, Evans will raise that a bit. Not sure if that would be OK despite lack of ping.
The problem with Evans vs water are:
- higher viscosity (however the new stuff NPG-R is significantly better than the old stuff)
- lower specific heat
The lack of spot boiling is Evans big advantage. In theory it's possible this offsets the above such that overall cooling is improved (setting aside the ping issue), but whether it is true in the real world, I don't know.
I've only seen one article with a seemingly proper test, on a modded Honduh, and they claim they indeed got more advance before ping on a dyno on a hot day; they'd turned down the fans or something to get the coolant hot. I've never seen another article corroborate this. GRM had one article - it was part of a 5.0 Mustang buildup. They described it, but no followups. I posted on the site to ask how it did and they said "it seemed to work, but we sold the car, and as far as we know it's still fine". This seeming lack of proper testing on Evans coolant is pretty puzzling. Their website sucks too - it looks like it hasn't been updated in years. If I were them I'd get magazines to test their ****.
Using Evans and a reverse flow electric pump, seems to be synergistic. The complexity however .... BTW Autospeed.com got threatened with a lawsuit by the Davies Craig electric pump guys. Rumor is that they tested their "more hp" claims, saw none, then DC shut them up. Stupid, because part of the test could have been to see if the flow was adequate in a typical setup... and then you have the potential to run reverse flow. Who cares about 2 hp if the reverse flow allows 2 psi more boost at MBT.
I think 240*F coolant temps are OK, IF you don't have ping. But if you see 240*F now, Evans will raise that a bit. Not sure if that would be OK despite lack of ping.
The problem with Evans vs water are:
- higher viscosity (however the new stuff NPG-R is significantly better than the old stuff)
- lower specific heat
The lack of spot boiling is Evans big advantage. In theory it's possible this offsets the above such that overall cooling is improved (setting aside the ping issue), but whether it is true in the real world, I don't know.
What kind are temps are you seeing with the Evans; track, autoX, and DD?
Are you running the NPG-R or the older stuff?
Any long term durability concerns?
Isn't the main problem with overheating the steam pockets (nucleation point?) and that when these occur the temperature differential is what is mainly causing engine damage? As long as the oil temps are kept in check, wouldn't higher coolant temperatures be fine, within a certain degree?
Another reason pushing me towards the EVANs, Rotax requires it for some of their aircraft engines.
Feeding your Rotax 4-stroke Aircraft Engine | Rotax fuel, Rotax octane, Rotax oil, coolant, waterless
Cooling Liquid
Type selection
Figure 2. Cylinder heat temperature limits based on type of coolant and radiator cap in use.
The selection of your cooling liquid depends on the efficiency of your cooling system (radiator size and installation, etc).
Cylinder head temperature (CHT) is directly related to the efficiency of your cooling system and to the dangerous presence of vapour bubbles. Therefore this temperature is measured instead of the cooling liquid temperature.
If in all situations your cylinder head temperature is inside the limits of the "hot" or "normal" ranges of the first two columns in figure 2, you may use the ethylene glycol and water type.
You may notice that systems using a 1.2 bar / 18 psi (standard on recent engines) radiator cap have a broader range of allowable temperatures than those using a 0.9 bar / 13 psi cap.
If however your cylinder head temperature reaches the "hot" range of the third column, the use of Evans NPG+™ non-aqueous (waterless) liquid is mandatory.
Non-aqueous type
The Evans NPG+™ non-aqueous cooling liquid is mandatory under certain circumstances, but we recommend it for every engine since it offers more efficient cooling, an extremely high boiling point, a very low freezing point, corrosion prevention and unlimited life (no need to renew every two years). Also notable is that it operates at no or minimal pressure which greatly increases safety in case of an in-flight leak. It is available from us.
Type selection
Figure 2. Cylinder heat temperature limits based on type of coolant and radiator cap in use.
The selection of your cooling liquid depends on the efficiency of your cooling system (radiator size and installation, etc).
Cylinder head temperature (CHT) is directly related to the efficiency of your cooling system and to the dangerous presence of vapour bubbles. Therefore this temperature is measured instead of the cooling liquid temperature.
If in all situations your cylinder head temperature is inside the limits of the "hot" or "normal" ranges of the first two columns in figure 2, you may use the ethylene glycol and water type.
You may notice that systems using a 1.2 bar / 18 psi (standard on recent engines) radiator cap have a broader range of allowable temperatures than those using a 0.9 bar / 13 psi cap.
If however your cylinder head temperature reaches the "hot" range of the third column, the use of Evans NPG+™ non-aqueous (waterless) liquid is mandatory.
Non-aqueous type
The Evans NPG+™ non-aqueous cooling liquid is mandatory under certain circumstances, but we recommend it for every engine since it offers more efficient cooling, an extremely high boiling point, a very low freezing point, corrosion prevention and unlimited life (no need to renew every two years). Also notable is that it operates at no or minimal pressure which greatly increases safety in case of an in-flight leak. It is available from us.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...%20Coolant.pdf
Chris
EDIT: Also, wouldn't this be the cheapest/easiest mod for overheating? EVAN's < extractor hood, reroute, double pass crazy sized radiators
Last edited by Miatamaniac92; 07-10-2009 at 02:02 PM. Reason: 2 more cents
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07-10-2009 | 05:05 PM
#49
Elite Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,420
Total Cats: 84
Interesting find!
Well if it's true that you can run a lot hotter safely with Evans then yes it may solve Sav's overheating issues - assuming his oil temps stay <250*F.
I think a fair test is for him to dyno his car with det cans while increasing the coolant temps all the way to 260*F and monitoring the CHT, knock, and HP. If HP starts to drop sharply at a certain colant and/or head temperature, that would be a danger sign.
Ideally Sav will add a CHT gauge before he converts to Evans.
I use NPG+
I have no long term durability concerns. I get to 110*C on a hottish day at the track
I put it in before NPG-R came out. NPG-R is better in all respects except they recommend changing it out every year or 2.
Well if it's true that you can run a lot hotter safely with Evans then yes it may solve Sav's overheating issues - assuming his oil temps stay <250*F.
I think a fair test is for him to dyno his car with det cans while increasing the coolant temps all the way to 260*F and monitoring the CHT, knock, and HP. If HP starts to drop sharply at a certain colant and/or head temperature, that would be a danger sign.
Ideally Sav will add a CHT gauge before he converts to Evans.
I use NPG+
I have no long term durability concerns. I get to 110*C on a hottish day at the track
I put it in before NPG-R came out. NPG-R is better in all respects except they recommend changing it out every year or 2.
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