Front and Rear Subframes
#22
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More details.
Front: the lower control arm mounting points are moved for a bit more caster. The NB steering rack has a stronger mounting. I'm not 100% sure on brace modification points. I would recommend going to the NB spindles, which also means you want the NB upper control arm due to a change in the ball joint. NB arms also have more reinforcements as well as that modified sway bar end link mounting point.
Rear: The subframe geometry is identical. The mounting points for the braces changed, but are the same for all NBs - you can attach the stronger 01+ Sport braces to the 1999-00 subframe, although you'll find you're missing one of the twin bolt holes on the tub. Exhaust hangers were moved. The uprights have 5mm more track on each side. Again, the control arms are dimensionally the same but have some extra reinforcements.
No welding is involved to swap them around - my 1994 Targa car has a set of 2005 subframes on it. It also has an NB exhaust so the exhaust hanger changes aren't a problem.
Front: the lower control arm mounting points are moved for a bit more caster. The NB steering rack has a stronger mounting. I'm not 100% sure on brace modification points. I would recommend going to the NB spindles, which also means you want the NB upper control arm due to a change in the ball joint. NB arms also have more reinforcements as well as that modified sway bar end link mounting point.
Rear: The subframe geometry is identical. The mounting points for the braces changed, but are the same for all NBs - you can attach the stronger 01+ Sport braces to the 1999-00 subframe, although you'll find you're missing one of the twin bolt holes on the tub. Exhaust hangers were moved. The uprights have 5mm more track on each side. Again, the control arms are dimensionally the same but have some extra reinforcements.
No welding is involved to swap them around - my 1994 Targa car has a set of 2005 subframes on it. It also has an NB exhaust so the exhaust hanger changes aren't a problem.
#25
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If you followed the armchair engeneers on Miata.net from the mid to late 90’s this should have caused the rear wheel bearing to explode by running anything other than the stock 45mm wheel offset.
Bob
#26
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Bob. the track increase came from the wheels and a change in geometry in the rear. Check the specs and you'll see the NB rear track increased more than the front. You can also check the factory 1999 Service Highlights book - that's where the 5mm number comes from.
However, the statement that it's from the subframe is incorrect. It's the hub carrier that changed.
However, the statement that it's from the subframe is incorrect. It's the hub carrier that changed.
#27
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So the extra 5mm in the rear came from the Hub carrier? What is the hub carrier? Spindle, lower or upper arms? I just put 01+ rear hubs/spindles with 95 axles and it appears the axle doesnt seat completed in hub, a few mm off?
NVM-it is what the hub is pressed into. Do you think it's safe to run the 95 axles with 01+ hubs being that the surface of the large part of the axles don't seat fully against the hub carrier?
NVM-it is what the hub is pressed into. Do you think it's safe to run the 95 axles with 01+ hubs being that the surface of the large part of the axles don't seat fully against the hub carrier?
Last edited by JEMERY; 11-16-2010 at 03:56 PM.
#28
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Bob. the track increase came from the wheels and a change in geometry in the rear. Check the specs and you'll see the NB rear track increased more than the front. You can also check the factory 1999 Service Highlights book - that's where the 5mm number comes from.
However, the statement that it's from the subframe is incorrect. It's the hub carrier that changed.
However, the statement that it's from the subframe is incorrect. It's the hub carrier that changed.
NA 55.5/56.2
NB 55.7/56.7
So 5mm difference per side is in the wheels. That would mean the NB suspension geometry is ~2.5mm narrower per side in the front and ~1.35mm per side wider in the rear.
So the NB rear upright puts the wheel 1.35mm further out I guess. That is like negligible in my opinon. I almost wonder if it is round off error and a units conversion by the marketing folks.
The change in front geometry and rack mounting is a bit more significant however.
Bob
#32
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It wouldn’t surprise me it the real reason mazda widened it wasn’t to go after improved handling. I would about bet it was because the Clay model guys in styling got into adding more clay and then when they were real happy with the shape of the fender they found the wheel looked too far inboard compared to the fender so the styling guys petetioned to have the wheels pushed it out not the handleing guys.
I will also say running less offset on the wheels doesn’t screw up the handling of the car at all in the case of the Miata. I think my car handles and feels better than it ever did now with now 20mm spacers behind 15X9 949 wheels. I don’t think I’ve gotten to the point of diminishing returns yet, wider is better.
Bob
Last edited by bbundy; 11-17-2010 at 02:40 AM.
#33
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More details.
Front: the lower control arm mounting points are moved for a bit more caster. The NB steering rack has a stronger mounting. I'm not 100% sure on brace modification points. I would recommend going to the NB spindles, which also means you want the NB upper control arm due to a change in the ball joint. NB arms also have more reinforcements as well as that modified sway bar end link mounting point.
Front: the lower control arm mounting points are moved for a bit more caster. The NB steering rack has a stronger mounting. I'm not 100% sure on brace modification points. I would recommend going to the NB spindles, which also means you want the NB upper control arm due to a change in the ball joint. NB arms also have more reinforcements as well as that modified sway bar end link mounting point.
#35
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Rear: The subframe geometry is identical. The mounting points for the braces changed, but are the same for all NBs - you can attach the stronger 01+ Sport braces to the 1999-00 subframe, although you'll find you're missing one of the twin bolt holes on the tub. Exhaust hangers were moved. The uprights have 5mm more track on each side. Again, the control arms are dimensionally the same but have some extra reinforcements.
No welding is involved to swap them around - my 1994 Targa car has a set of 2005 subframes on it. It also has an NB exhaust so the exhaust hanger changes aren't a problem.
No welding is involved to swap them around - my 1994 Targa car has a set of 2005 subframes on it. It also has an NB exhaust so the exhaust hanger changes aren't a problem.
#39
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Wow, are we still having this conversation?
The axles are the same size for all 1.8 cars except the MSM. The early 1.8 NAs (94-95ish) originally used two-piece axles, but they are all dimensionally compatible.
The part numbers varied during the original production run as the design of the CV joints was tweaked several times, but as service parts, Mazda lists the same unit (MD-25-500) for all non-turbo, ABS-equipped 1.8 cars in the Collision Guide:
The axles are the same size for all 1.8 cars except the MSM. The early 1.8 NAs (94-95ish) originally used two-piece axles, but they are all dimensionally compatible.
The part numbers varied during the original production run as the design of the CV joints was tweaked several times, but as service parts, Mazda lists the same unit (MD-25-500) for all non-turbo, ABS-equipped 1.8 cars in the Collision Guide:
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/22417-front-rear-subframes-k8cvs.gif?dateline=1312567410)
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/22418-front-rear-subframes-mfxej.gif?dateline=1312567410)
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