FI options(Cali, now with 33% more fail)
#1
FI options(Cali, now with 33% more fail)
Looking for advice on options-
I run auto-x with occasional track days and I drive this thing a few times a week. Car is a 10AE
Here's what I would like:
200whp/150+trq
CARB approved turbo system for under 5k.
I am willing to entertain non-CARB approved systems, but I'm not down to spend 15 hours R/R every other year, I am too old(read- Lazy).
S/C set-up isn't out of the question. Same situation-CARB approved or easy to R/R.
Looked at the ROTREX system, but I can't seem to drop 4g's on such a nasty torque curve. It may drive differently than it dyno's, but it looks underwhelming.
Enlighten me, wise folk..
I run auto-x with occasional track days and I drive this thing a few times a week. Car is a 10AE
Here's what I would like:
200whp/150+trq
CARB approved turbo system for under 5k.
I am willing to entertain non-CARB approved systems, but I'm not down to spend 15 hours R/R every other year, I am too old(read- Lazy).
S/C set-up isn't out of the question. Same situation-CARB approved or easy to R/R.
Looked at the ROTREX system, but I can't seem to drop 4g's on such a nasty torque curve. It may drive differently than it dyno's, but it looks underwhelming.
Enlighten me, wise folk..
#3
My big question: how competitive are you with autocross?
FI is going to have you running with the biplane RX7s in SM2 or SSM or whatever they're calling it now.
Most competitive FI Miata I've seen in autocross was my friend Gary's '96 with FM 2 liter stroker and "Ubercharger". SC is possibly better for autox than turbo because of the lag associated with turbos. I don't know how the courses are where you live, especially since you haven't listed your location, but in Marina they were mostly 2nd gear courses with the 510 club, and getting into 3rd with the American muscle guys.
Just so we're clear, MT.net establishment, if it were for street or trackdays (where lag is a non-issue) I'd be recommending turbo hands-down.
FI is going to have you running with the biplane RX7s in SM2 or SSM or whatever they're calling it now.
Most competitive FI Miata I've seen in autocross was my friend Gary's '96 with FM 2 liter stroker and "Ubercharger". SC is possibly better for autox than turbo because of the lag associated with turbos. I don't know how the courses are where you live, especially since you haven't listed your location, but in Marina they were mostly 2nd gear courses with the 510 club, and getting into 3rd with the American muscle guys.
Just so we're clear, MT.net establishment, if it were for street or trackdays (where lag is a non-issue) I'd be recommending turbo hands-down.
Last edited by kotomile; 04-13-2013 at 12:09 PM.
#4
15 hours every other year? Dude, how slow do you work? Swapping mine back for smog takes 2 hours tops.
Two hours for a well put together system? I want it done right.
My big question: how competitive are you with autocross?
I am no stranger to turbo cars, I prefer them. I'm not willing to dedicate much time in completing a R/R for smog.
#8
I don't care about carb approved. My old setup was on and off in 2 hours, because I designed it that way. My new future setup "may" be able to pass smog, need to figure out the intricacies of this new obd2 test.
Begi turbo kit is carb, but it's not top of the line. You could also look at swapping in a msm setup as the newer engine from same car may be smog okay, and that is close to your goals.
Begi turbo kit is carb, but it's not top of the line. You could also look at swapping in a msm setup as the newer engine from same car may be smog okay, and that is close to your goals.
#9
I'm in the top 3 for the day(across all classes) and frequently chasing FTD. I battle with two cars for FTD consistently- A hooked-up E46 M3 and a 550WHP TT 911... then there's my lowly 140hp Miata. Our courses usually run exactly as you said, top of second with the occasional shift to 3rd. I'm leaving so much time on the table due to lack of torque and my nemesis and I are 2-3 tenths apart.
I am no stranger to turbo cars, I prefer them. I'm not willing to dedicate much time in completing a R/R for smog.
I am no stranger to turbo cars, I prefer them. I'm not willing to dedicate much time in completing a R/R for smog.
Just get a hotside super and some CARB-approved header. R/R should be minimal and you'll have torque enough to leave it in gear on course. And then again, some hotside supers are CARB, right? So there's that.
I'm no s/c expert, but they are typically self-contained WRT lubrication, you aren't replacing any manifolds, etc. so R/R ought to be much easier relative to turbo if you need to take it off for smog at all.
A note - Superchargers aren't typically well-regarded on this site, but most of that I think is down to the typical supercharger owner, who drinks the m.net Kool-Aid, slaps on a hotside and a Powercard (complete with E-Cool!) and proceeds to vent their crankcase and/or not make much power. If you were to go the bigger injector/EMS route you could make good power and would just obviously have to swap out to stock injectors and computer for smog.
#10
Forget CARB. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all. It's always going to take more time and cost more than you expect. If you aren't willing to sacrifice the time and money, I'd seriously question if you want to start down the rabbit hole.
#11
Wait, what part of my post lead you to believe I am not willing to "do it right" or spend what is necessary? I don't believe I've ever so much as implied either of those concepts. My only restriction is that I am not willing to spend 15 hours R/R. I am willing to spend 30 hours installing it the first time.
I can't forget CARB, the vehicle has to pass a visual and sniffer test bi-annually .
I have no desire to piece together a garbage kit, I want it done right. As with most things you will pay now, or you will pay later. I'd rather put the money up front and save myself the frustration of long term nickle/dime cost(s).
That said, I'm not willing to spend 15 hours every other year R/R a system.
If there is no way to accomplish my goal than feel free to say so and I'll consider something like a Rotrex system.
I can't forget CARB, the vehicle has to pass a visual and sniffer test bi-annually .
I have no desire to piece together a garbage kit, I want it done right. As with most things you will pay now, or you will pay later. I'd rather put the money up front and save myself the frustration of long term nickle/dime cost(s).
That said, I'm not willing to spend 15 hours every other year R/R a system.
If there is no way to accomplish my goal than feel free to say so and I'll consider something like a Rotrex system.
#12
To convert an FM2-equipped car to smoggable state you need to remove:
- Downpipe
- manifold+turbo+outlet casting (one piece)
- ECU connection to Hydra
- Injectors
- Intake plumbing hoses.
You can leave the intercooler in the car, just plug the ports. You can leave the Hydra installed, just unplug the ECU extension harness and plug the main ECU back in. If you have the FM 2.5" exhaust, you can *probably* leave that installed and just hook the stock downpipe up to it. I say probably because the FM cat may or may not pass the smog test. If it doesn't, you'll need to swap the midpipe back for the stock one. The FM 3 inch exhaust won't bolt up to the stock system anywhere, so you'd need to swap the whole thing.
If you're happy with 200hp, you can probably make that on the stock injectors and not have to worry about swapping those.
If you've done it once or twice, know where everything is, have anti-seized all the bolts, done all the ducting trimming, clearanced anything that needs it, etc, then swapping just the turbo bits in/out is an afternoon's work. Assuming you have the 2.5" exhaust and stick with the stock injectors, it's literally only about 30-40 bolts.
--Ian
#13
Wait if you're already close to FTD and thats what you're running for. Cut fenders, add flares, purchase 15x10 wheels and 275 hoosiers, put them on at the event. Run 1 event, realize your car is too soft, buy 850/500 spring, realize the ride is too harsh because you have cheap shocks, buy xida/penske, realize you're now consistently beating the other cars for ftd by a second. Lol, hoosiers are instant magic.
#14
Codrus,
Thanks for the helpful reply. I am considering building my own kit if it is as quick to R/R as everyone says. I am currently researching what parts I would need.
Leafy,
The M3 is on slicks, the AWD911TT is on 888's and I am running RS-3's. I want to beat them on RS-3's by a full second. :P
Thanks for the helpful reply. I am considering building my own kit if it is as quick to R/R as everyone says. I am currently researching what parts I would need.
Leafy,
The M3 is on slicks, the AWD911TT is on 888's and I am running RS-3's. I want to beat them on RS-3's by a full second. :P
#15
From what I've heard, auto-xing a boosted miata on street tires doesnt work too well. I dont really ever plan on trying it unless it rains at a race this year since another set of wheels and hoosiers H2Os are not in the budget. And personally, for an a-x car I'll take slicks and lowish power rwd over street tires and ALLOFTHEPOWER every time.
#16
Wait, what part of my post lead you to believe I am not willing to "do it right" or spend what is necessary? I don't believe I've ever so much as implied either of those concepts. My only restriction is that I am not willing to spend 15 hours R/R. I am willing to spend 30 hours installing it the first time.
I can't forget CARB, the vehicle has to pass a visual and sniffer test bi-annually .
I have no desire to piece together a garbage kit, I want it done right. As with most things you will pay now, or you will pay later. I'd rather put the money up front and save myself the frustration of long term nickle/dime cost(s).
That said, I'm not willing to spend 15 hours every other year R/R a system.
If there is no way to accomplish my goal than feel free to say so and I'll consider something like a Rotrex system.
I can't forget CARB, the vehicle has to pass a visual and sniffer test bi-annually .
I have no desire to piece together a garbage kit, I want it done right. As with most things you will pay now, or you will pay later. I'd rather put the money up front and save myself the frustration of long term nickle/dime cost(s).
That said, I'm not willing to spend 15 hours every other year R/R a system.
If there is no way to accomplish my goal than feel free to say so and I'll consider something like a Rotrex system.
Leafy has the real solution pegged. You'd be wise to listen.
#18
From what I've heard, auto-xing a boosted miata on street tires doesnt work too well. I dont really ever plan on trying it unless it rains at a race this year since another set of wheels and hoosiers H2Os are not in the budget. And personally, for an a-x car I'll take slicks and lowish power rwd over street tires and ALLOFTHEPOWER every time.
#20
Also fyi on my car I can completely remove the supercharger in 15 min and all the signs off boost in an hour.
No Hoosiers. I'll stick with RS-3's or R1Rs- I like the RS-3's a bit better as far as feedback, it's a great tire.
AS much as I hate the thought of it, that Rotrex is looking more and more appealing. Not only for its R/R simplicity, but it appears to be fairly bomb proof and that slow/progressive torque curve might add just enough to start pulling me out of slow corners a bit faster without creating a deficit elsewhere.
Thoughts?
I need to drive one.