Anyone have any brake questions?
#261
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This is the kit that lets you move the standard NA8 calipers out so you can fit larger sport rotors in the rear:
Miata M-Tuned Big Rotor Kit
Use that^ in the rear and the 11.75 kit in the front and you will be pretty good.
SuperMiata 11.75 BBK
11.75" vs 11" Corrado pictured:
Sexytime
Miata M-Tuned Big Rotor Kit
Rear kit allows you to install 10.84" Miata factory Sport Brake Rotors to replace the OEM Miata 9.89" rotors.
The 1" increase in rotor diameter means greater brake torque. This translates to reduced fade and a more braking power. Uses the same 94-02 Miata pads. Clears OEM 15" Miata wheels and 8,9 and 10"6UL's.
The 1" increase in rotor diameter means greater brake torque. This translates to reduced fade and a more braking power. Uses the same 94-02 Miata pads. Clears OEM 15" Miata wheels and 8,9 and 10"6UL's.
SuperMiata 11.75 BBK
11.75" vs 11" Corrado pictured:
Sexytime
#262
after you burn off that rotor it's recommended to switch to a PFC 11.75" rotor. The rotors on my car have been in service since 2012. same rotors, 500hp, 15 events a year, 2700lbs with driver.
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#264
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This is another reason I like the 11.75/Dynalite combo. There are a bunch of different rotor designs and brands and there are pads from nearly every manufacturer to choose from. And some choices are quite cheap and some are super fancy.
#266
i was looking at those rotors. One thing to keep in mind is that we are playing with circle track rotors here.
Dirt late model cars install a fluid shut off valve in line for the front right brake caliper. essentially only 3 of the brakes are working. They do this to help rotate the car in dirt. many of the rotors on sale today are meant to only be there because the rules for dirt late models said they needed to have 4 rotors and 4 calipers. a word of warning. there are rotors and calipers for sale that their only job is to exist, and are not meant to be used.
Dirt Late Model Brake Shut Off Photo 2
Dirt late model cars install a fluid shut off valve in line for the front right brake caliper. essentially only 3 of the brakes are working. They do this to help rotate the car in dirt. many of the rotors on sale today are meant to only be there because the rules for dirt late models said they needed to have 4 rotors and 4 calipers. a word of warning. there are rotors and calipers for sale that their only job is to exist, and are not meant to be used.
Dirt Late Model Brake Shut Off Photo 2
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Last edited by OGRacing; 02-09-2015 at 08:45 AM.
#268
I'm incited by them too. they look cool. but my inner engineer says run!
wilwood's sight says "light dirt use" it also says "unsafe for street".
Wilwood High-Performance Disc Brakes - Rotor No: 160-8135
wilwood's sight says "light dirt use" it also says "unsafe for street".
Wilwood High-Performance Disc Brakes - Rotor No: 160-8135
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#269
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Miata Big Brakes, Newest VERSION 4 kit, OUR BEST FOUR WHEEL MIATA BIG BRAKE KIT- with forged four piston calipers! for Miata 1990-1993
here you go. i recommend the 11.75" if you feel like swapping out rotors a lot then get the 11".
here you go. i recommend the 11.75" if you feel like swapping out rotors a lot then get the 11".
-Ryan
#270
your absolutely right. i was looking at the 11" rotor vs 11.75" rotor both offered by wilwood. all of wilwoods rotors come from china and have terrible life vs. cost ratios.
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#271
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Apples oranges
11" premium rotor vs. 11.75 economy rotor 11" premium rotor vs. 11.75 premium rotor
FWIW, my 11.75 Wilwood "economy" rotors are holding up very well. Two sets of pads and they still look great.
11" premium rotor vs. 11.75 economy rotor 11" premium rotor vs. 11.75 premium rotor
FWIW, my 11.75 Wilwood "economy" rotors are holding up very well. Two sets of pads and they still look great.
#272
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FWIW, many of the guys on the DBA rotors still haven't needed to get a replacement set after 4+ years.
-Ryan
#273
First, thank you for the information, it's been an interesting read. I also like that there's been no implications that bigger brakes will make a car that can lock them up brake faster.
At Laguna Seca last weekend I was getting wheel lock up going into 2 and 5 under hard braking. I know that this means that I need a lighter touch on the brakes. I also want to investigate shifting some brake balance backwards, as it sounds like there's performance there. Obviously the easy way out is the FM prop valve, but it sounds like a real MC setup is the right way to go.
I only drive the car to the track and on the track, but that does involve driving through SF for trips to Laguna Seca. Obviously it will take more effort. Am I going to hate myself? Or once I put a new hole in the pedal will it be reasonable? Would capping the vacuum line to the booster be a good approximation to try it before I start disassembling the brake system?
At Laguna Seca last weekend I was getting wheel lock up going into 2 and 5 under hard braking. I know that this means that I need a lighter touch on the brakes. I also want to investigate shifting some brake balance backwards, as it sounds like there's performance there. Obviously the easy way out is the FM prop valve, but it sounds like a real MC setup is the right way to go.
I only drive the car to the track and on the track, but that does involve driving through SF for trips to Laguna Seca. Obviously it will take more effort. Am I going to hate myself? Or once I put a new hole in the pedal will it be reasonable? Would capping the vacuum line to the booster be a good approximation to try it before I start disassembling the brake system?
#274
First, thank you for the information, it's been an interesting read. I also like that there's been no implications that bigger brakes will make a car that can lock them up brake faster.
At Laguna Seca last weekend I was getting wheel lock up going into 2 and 5 under hard braking. I know that this means that I need a lighter touch on the brakes. I also want to investigate shifting some brake balance backwards, as it sounds like there's performance there. Obviously the easy way out is the FM prop valve, but it sounds like a real MC setup is the right way to go.
I only drive the car to the track and on the track, but that does involve driving through SF for trips to Laguna Seca. Obviously it will take more effort. Am I going to hate myself? Or once I put a new hole in the pedal will it be reasonable? Would capping the vacuum line to the booster be a good approximation to try it before I start disassembling the brake system?
At Laguna Seca last weekend I was getting wheel lock up going into 2 and 5 under hard braking. I know that this means that I need a lighter touch on the brakes. I also want to investigate shifting some brake balance backwards, as it sounds like there's performance there. Obviously the easy way out is the FM prop valve, but it sounds like a real MC setup is the right way to go.
I only drive the car to the track and on the track, but that does involve driving through SF for trips to Laguna Seca. Obviously it will take more effort. Am I going to hate myself? Or once I put a new hole in the pedal will it be reasonable? Would capping the vacuum line to the booster be a good approximation to try it before I start disassembling the brake system?
Pulling the vacuum on a booster system will not give you the same response. The pedal rations on a booster system are 4:1, a manual system is near 6:1. Plus the manual systems will be using much smaller MC’s.
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#276
A boosted miata brake set up (4:1 pedal ratio, 4.71 boost ratio, .874" mc) at 100lbs of force will yield 1580psi. Remove the vacuum off the system and your psi @ 100 lbs will tumble to 330psi.
A dual MC unit (.57" Front, .811" rear Mc's, 5.75 pedal ratio) @ 100psi will generate line pressure near 750 psi. double the psi of a vacuum less boosted system.
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#277
Thanks everyone in this thread for the info. I think I have decided on the following route.
Flyin` Miata Stage 1 four-wheel big brake kit
The kit includes:
Wilwood Dynapro 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Porterfield R4-S rear brake pads
two-piece 11" slotted Spec-37 front rotors
one-piece 11" slotted rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
FM proportioning valve kit (not on 2001-05 ABS kits)
ATE DOT4 brake fluid
My rear calipers are in amazing shape. I won't know how the rubber on them looks until I pull them off, however the outside is very clean. If the rubber looks aged, I will rebuild them. If it still looks healthy I will just clean the outside, toss some black on them and call it a day.
I need to replace my master and brake booster as well. The current plan is to buy a new OEM master from Rosenthal Miata (or planet miata if they get back to me). I figure it is worth it to pick up a new master with new seals. Then pick up a used brake booster. I still have to check my local used places, part outs and maybe ebay (or planet miata if they get back to me).
Thanks for answering my questions.
Flyin` Miata Stage 1 four-wheel big brake kit
The kit includes:
Wilwood Dynapro 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Porterfield R4-S rear brake pads
two-piece 11" slotted Spec-37 front rotors
one-piece 11" slotted rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
FM proportioning valve kit (not on 2001-05 ABS kits)
ATE DOT4 brake fluid
My rear calipers are in amazing shape. I won't know how the rubber on them looks until I pull them off, however the outside is very clean. If the rubber looks aged, I will rebuild them. If it still looks healthy I will just clean the outside, toss some black on them and call it a day.
I need to replace my master and brake booster as well. The current plan is to buy a new OEM master from Rosenthal Miata (or planet miata if they get back to me). I figure it is worth it to pick up a new master with new seals. Then pick up a used brake booster. I still have to check my local used places, part outs and maybe ebay (or planet miata if they get back to me).
Thanks for answering my questions.
#280
Thanks everyone in this thread for the info. I think I have decided on the following route.
Flyin` Miata Stage 1 four-wheel big brake kit
The kit includes:
Wilwood Dynapro 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Porterfield R4-S rear brake pads
two-piece 11" slotted Spec-37 front rotors
one-piece 11" slotted rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
FM proportioning valve kit (not on 2001-05 ABS kits)
ATE DOT4 brake fluid
My rear calipers are in amazing shape. I won't know how the rubber on them looks until I pull them off, however the outside is very clean. If the rubber looks aged, I will rebuild them. If it still looks healthy I will just clean the outside, toss some black on them and call it a day.
I need to replace my master and brake booster as well. The current plan is to buy a new OEM master from Rosenthal Miata (or planet miata if they get back to me). I figure it is worth it to pick up a new master with new seals. Then pick up a used brake booster. I still have to check my local used places, part outs and maybe ebay (or planet miata if they get back to me).
Thanks for answering my questions.
Flyin` Miata Stage 1 four-wheel big brake kit
The kit includes:
Wilwood Dynapro 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Porterfield R4-S rear brake pads
two-piece 11" slotted Spec-37 front rotors
one-piece 11" slotted rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
FM proportioning valve kit (not on 2001-05 ABS kits)
ATE DOT4 brake fluid
My rear calipers are in amazing shape. I won't know how the rubber on them looks until I pull them off, however the outside is very clean. If the rubber looks aged, I will rebuild them. If it still looks healthy I will just clean the outside, toss some black on them and call it a day.
I need to replace my master and brake booster as well. The current plan is to buy a new OEM master from Rosenthal Miata (or planet miata if they get back to me). I figure it is worth it to pick up a new master with new seals. Then pick up a used brake booster. I still have to check my local used places, part outs and maybe ebay (or planet miata if they get back to me).
Thanks for answering my questions.
As sixshooter mentioned, the BP-10's are show car pads. The HPS + is an HPDE pad for street tires and stock power, and not good ones at that. You need race pads, plain and simple. OG Racing, FM, us (949 Racing), Goodwin, Trackspeed can help you there. Your front plate number is 7812, rear is 458. If you intend on driving this 350whp track car anywhere in the vicinity of its limits, you must not run the pads you listed.
You have too much rear rotor for the front rotors chosen. Either step up to 11.75 (what I would recommend), or step the rear down to 9.9" NA8 rears. Running 11's front and rear with your piston areas will be very frustrating for an experienced driver running near the cars limit. This is not a guess. We have quite a bit of experience matching these. To make the rotor combo you have balance, you will need almost a 20% difference in .mu between front and rear compound. We find that with that much difference, the torque vs/ temp plots have few points that rise in a linear fashion with the other. Meaning your brake bias will change during braking events even when one compound is in its sweet spot. Bring that delta down by running say, DTC60/DTC70 or XP12/XP10 and you have plots that more closely mirror each other.
As it stands, your brakes will fade after about one lap and have massive rear brake bias that you can't dial out. The .mu on the BP-10 is something like .38. That's comically wrong for your usage. If you insist on sticking with the hardware you have, at least get pads that will cover up the imbalance. FM, bless their hearts, still offers Wilwood compounds. Cutting edge in 1978. Not so much now. Look for ceramic kevlar formulations like PFC, Carbotech, Cobalt, Carbon Lorraine. I'm not a huge fan of Hawks but there are many hear that have like them. Their DTC line is sort of a budget version of the Carbotech / PFC/ Cobalt Cer-Kev stuff.
The basic brake hardware you have is top flight, just not configured well for your usage.
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