Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter
#101
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I dont know where all this talk of 850hp comes from, but on e85 id1k's are tapped out just past 400 wheel. Let's say 450 would be the absolute max.
And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
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EDIT: And I'm out of juice! Looks like I'll be bumping up my fuel pressure soon.
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You'll like my last post, it shows the inlet is the problem. Now I know that for sure and have data to prove it.
At this point I'm guessing I should buy a spectre filter with a 6" inlet, and then buy a silicone belmouth piece they sell that goes from 6" to 3" with a sweet transition.
Unless you gots a better/or cheaper idea.
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#102
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http://www.lysholm.us/pdf/diagram_lys1600ax.pdf
There is the compressor map of the older less efficient 1600AX. If you are taking 130hp to drive your blower you are so far off the map you are for sure making more boost than you are power and could benefit by dropping your boost pressure.
If you extrapolate 18,000 rpm on that map you are around 65kwh of power to drive the blower at redline. That's roughly 87 horsepower.
There is the compressor map of the older less efficient 1600AX. If you are taking 130hp to drive your blower you are so far off the map you are for sure making more boost than you are power and could benefit by dropping your boost pressure.
If you extrapolate 18,000 rpm on that map you are around 65kwh of power to drive the blower at redline. That's roughly 87 horsepower.
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And when you are calculating your required fuel flow You don't do the calculation with a Supercharged BSFC and then also account for the additional drag of the supercharger. The increased BSFC already has a modifier for the blower's loss.
If you are trying to account for some theoretical supercharger loss then you don't need to use a Supercharged BSFC because you are then "double counting."
If you are trying to account for some theoretical supercharger loss then you don't need to use a Supercharged BSFC because you are then "double counting."
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And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
#106
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I dont know where all this talk of 850hp comes from, but on e85 id1k's are tapped out just past 400 wheel. Let's say 450 would be the absolute max.
And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
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And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
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But I'm not here posting crap about any of that, this is supposed to be about air filter testing and now intake testing since I've found that's a bigger factor than the filter itself.
cyontani, than you very much for posting those pics and the chart again! I think I'm going to be buying something just like that from Spectre actually.
I made a new 3 to 4" trumpet and will be testing that tonight to see what affect that has. Gotta fuel it up first and other stuff.
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#110
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I made a 3" to 4" trumpet. It's not perfect but it's something for testing at least. I tested it and it works, so I now made it a bit better, will retest it tomorrow and then with it inside the filter. But for now here's what I got.
The trumpet performs the best by far. My AFRs leaned out big time, and boost went up! I'm at 29.8 PSI now at 7,500 vs 28 before! More boost, more duty cycle, and leaner AFRs all point to more airflow.
Tomorrow I'll be bumping up my fuel pressure to get my AFRs back in check.
Very surprised at what a difference the inlet makes.
Also worth noting, I noticed something is going on with the Secondary MAP sensors baseline reading. It's normally 98ish kPa at idle, but it's wandering around a bit for some reason. I noted in the latest excel sheet the idle kPa of the Sec Map sensor and put the delta P in parentheses next to the actual reading to give a more accurate representation of the delta. Also added boost to the graph so afr/boost is there too.
Thanks for the feedback on this topic gentlemen!
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/158433-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-no%2520filter%25203%2520to%25204%2520velocity%2520stack_zps1u8wax0t.png?dateline=1451631425)
The trumpet performs the best by far. My AFRs leaned out big time, and boost went up! I'm at 29.8 PSI now at 7,500 vs 28 before! More boost, more duty cycle, and leaner AFRs all point to more airflow.
Tomorrow I'll be bumping up my fuel pressure to get my AFRs back in check.
Very surprised at what a difference the inlet makes.
Also worth noting, I noticed something is going on with the Secondary MAP sensors baseline reading. It's normally 98ish kPa at idle, but it's wandering around a bit for some reason. I noted in the latest excel sheet the idle kPa of the Sec Map sensor and put the delta P in parentheses next to the actual reading to give a more accurate representation of the delta. Also added boost to the graph so afr/boost is there too.
Thanks for the feedback on this topic gentlemen!
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/158433-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-no%2520filter%25203%2520to%25204%2520velocity%2520stack_zps1u8wax0t.png?dateline=1451631425)
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#114
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Pat do you pull your recirc air from pre or post intercooler
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I have the AIT hooked up pre-sc. I have a sensor pre-SC and post-intercooler. The pre-sc one works better at keeping my AFRs correct when in boost, if using the post-ic one they lean out due to the rising temp causing it to pull fuel from the MAT air density curve.
Post-intercooler. Keeps the blower a lot cooler since the air gets to recirculate though a big intercooler before going back. Made that change a few months ago, made a big difference in SC cooling.
Post-intercooler. Keeps the blower a lot cooler since the air gets to recirculate though a big intercooler before going back. Made that change a few months ago, made a big difference in SC cooling.
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As an update, I ended up running the 4" trumpet I made into the Spectre filter. Filter w/ trumpet showed a 2 kPa increase in pressure drop vs the trumpet alone FWIW.
This put me maxing out my fuel system at the time. I fixed that, will update my fuel thread shortly...
This put me maxing out my fuel system at the time. I fixed that, will update my fuel thread shortly...
#117
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I know it isn't empirical but I bought the K&N RR-3003.
K&N RR-3003 Reverse Conical Universal Air Filter, Universal Air Filters
Based upon Garrett's Air filter page:
Air Filter | Turbobygarrett
I measured the filter media:
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/160643-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-80-u88lgd1_424799b70c0d5571ffa7cec17ce522de72cef6fe.png?dateline=1454031663)
and following their formula it should support 26.46 lbs/min of air flow.
Using BoostAdvisor, that filter should be good for 300 hp.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/160645-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-80-hh2idsn_661b49ba0ef3ddac6ddf693afdba0ed80a47f259.png?dateline=1454031663)
Again, not empirical, but I thought it may be helpful.
K&N RR-3003 Reverse Conical Universal Air Filter, Universal Air Filters
Based upon Garrett's Air filter page:
Air Filter | Turbobygarrett
I measured the filter media:
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/160643-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-80-u88lgd1_424799b70c0d5571ffa7cec17ce522de72cef6fe.png?dateline=1454031663)
and following their formula it should support 26.46 lbs/min of air flow.
Using BoostAdvisor, that filter should be good for 300 hp.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/general-miata-chat-9/160645-amsoil-air-filter-pressure-drop-tested-need-better-air-filter-80-hh2idsn_661b49ba0ef3ddac6ddf693afdba0ed80a47f259.png?dateline=1454031663)
Again, not empirical, but I thought it may be helpful.
#118
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And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
#119
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Hello gentlemen.
I happy to participate in your pressure drop/efficiency quest.
There is no way to move about filter manufacturers in terms of filter sizing/permeability unless you have very specific information with regard to the media used.
Regards,
R2C Performance Engineering
I happy to participate in your pressure drop/efficiency quest.
There is no way to move about filter manufacturers in terms of filter sizing/permeability unless you have very specific information with regard to the media used.
Regards,
R2C Performance Engineering
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