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I had my Miata build tuned yesterday. A problem arose, the tuner stated that I am running very hot on my temp. My digital gauge reads out 217 degrees and up to 222, my temp gauge on the dial sits in the middle as it should. I am using a NB gauge wired to the Na harness not sure if that would read out differently if it was the original gauge. The tuner said he was getting high temps from the MS3pro and not the digital gauge. He did attempt to burp out any air pockets but no success. The tuner did end the session because of heat concerns.
Coolant set up is. Supermiata cross flow radiator with super Miata coolant reroute. VVT in a 1990.
1. Is there something I am missing?
2. I did order a 180 degree thermostat. 195 is currently being used.
3. Is there a chance that the tubular manifold is causing excessive heat?
4. Maybe I wired the sensor wrong NB has 3 wires NA has 2.
The 3 wire NB sensor is just the two NA sensors in one. 2 wires for the ecu, 3rd is for the cluster. The cluster sits in the middle from ~130-200, barely creeps up till 220, then maxes out above that.
don’t change the thermostat, the 195 should maintain 195-205 on a naturally aspirated engine, even on hot days. Get an infrared gun and verify the coolant system is reading the same as the ECU.
The 3 wire NB sensor is just the two NA sensors in one. 2 wires for the ecu, 3rd is for the cluster. The cluster sits in the middle from ~130-200, barely creeps up till 220, then maxes out above that.
don’t change the thermostat, the 195 should maintain 195-205 on a naturally aspirated engine, even on hot days. Get an infrared gun and verify the coolant system is reading the same as the ECU.
I wanted to do that today but I couldn't located my infrared gun. Would a turbo cause a reading of 217 on the digital temp gauge? If it does you'd think the tuner knows that but he was very well known to people I've talk to. I am sure he knows his craft. I couldn't locate my infrared gun. Once I do I will use my laptop to get the MS3 temp compare it to other read outs. I do live in AZ and it's hot I don't know how much the ambient heat would affect a turbo build.
How old is the water pump? How old is the radiator, and what condition is it. Do you have oil temp reading, and if so what is it?
Presume the tuner had all the big fans and bonnet open?
What mods have you made to the cooling system/radiator/fans/etc?
Why did the tuner want to burp the car, have you been working on the radiator and had to refill it?
Everything is new. I'll have to get the oil temp reading later today I will post it. He burped the car because he wanted to finish the tune. Fans were on it, no hood.
not sure if it's significant but I do recall two versions of the water bump, one with a cast iron impaler and another with a stamped impaler. I don't see how that would lead to poor cooling.
When you say "digital gauge" in the original post you mean the gauge in tuner studio correct? It almost sounded like you had a standalone temp gauge as well as the reading from the ECU.
220 F is absolutely possible if you have a watercooled turbo. Even with an 80 C thermostat, ducting, running both fans, etc... I've hit those temps during autocross, although I believe some of that is due to grounding offsets (I've got another thread on that). Not saying that should happen, but if you're beating on the car on a dyno in the summer it doesn't seem shocking to me.
Did the car not cool down much or at all even sitting at idle? Sensor is set to the right calibration and both rad fans are turning on (assuming you have both)? Thermostat is new as well?
When you say "digital gauge" in the original post you mean the gauge in tuner studio correct? It almost sounded like you had a standalone temp gauge as well as the reading from the ECU.
220 F is absolutely possible if you have a watercooled turbo. Even with an 80 C thermostat, ducting, running both fans, etc... I've hit those temps during autocross, although I believe some of that is due to grounding offsets (I've got another thread on that). Not saying that should happen, but if you're beating on the car on a dyno in the summer it doesn't seem shocking to me.
Did the car not cool down much or at all even sitting at idle? Sensor is set to the right calibration and both rad fans are turning on (assuming you have both)? Thermostat is new as well?
Hello SimBa, stand alone temp gauge in the car plus the OEM gauge on the cluster. I have not personally seen the temp numbers on the MS3 yet tomorrow I plan on checking all 3 plus the infrared gun.
Turbo is water cooled. The tuner could not run both fans for some reason. I am tempted to get a relay switch and run both fans 100% of the time. I do not know the calibration setting on I was not allowed to watch as the tuning process happened.
are you saying it's normal to have higher temps for my set up. Water cooled BW 6758 with only one fan running?
I plan on using a no spill funnel tomorrow with the front jacked up tomorrow and using the bleeder valve on the qmax reroute.
No, I'm not saying that it's normal or OK, just that I've also had high temps. I have my ECU lower the rev limiter around 220F as a protective measure. I could probably let it run a bit hotter without damaging anything, but IMO if the temps are getting that high then I want to know so I can let the car cool off.
My temps got as high as 100 C (212 F) the other day during a calm 30 minute drive in 37 C (~95 F) heat. That was when only 1 of my rad fans was running. I usually have my ECU trigger the second fan (AC Fan) around 90 C but had been playing with AC settings which caused the fan to only come on if AC was on. With both fans running, my temps don't get much above wherever I set the second fan to come on, unless I'm beating on the car, in which case the temps will continue to climb until I let the car cool down. If you're on the dyno with a big cooling fan running and no hood I'm not sure the second fan would be necessary, but it wouldn't hurt.
Its weird that the tuner didn't tell you what temps he was seeing. Regardless, 220 F, if the car isn't cooling back down between runs, seems hot enough to stop the session. If the heat is just building and building then you're just asking to damage something.
I had my Miata build tuned yesterday. A problem arose, the tuner stated that I am running very hot on my temp. My digital gauge reads out 217 degrees and up to 222, my temp gauge on the dial sits in the middle as it should. I am using a NB gauge wired to the Na harness not sure if that would read out differently if it was the original gauge. The tuner said he was getting high temps from the MS3pro and not the digital gauge. He did attempt to burp out any air pockets but no success. The tuner did end the session because of heat concerns.
Coolant set up is. Supermiata cross flow radiator with super Miata coolant reroute. VVT in a 1990.
1. Is there something I am missing?
2. I did order a 180 degree thermostat. 195 is currently being used.
3. Is there a chance that the tubular manifold is causing excessive heat?
4. Maybe I wired the sensor wrong NB has 3 wires NA has 2.
V/r,
Sezgin
Rereading the instruction and the website.
Why OEM fans and shroud? Our street and track testing shows that the amount of air entering the nose of a Miata above about 20mph is far higher than any fan can move. For this reason, we do not recommend any aftermarket fans or shrouds as some street oriented tuners may suggest. At any speed above 20mph, a shroud will actually reduce total air mass through the radiator. If you only need to hardpark or sit in an autocross grid with the A/C on, then shrouds will help. If you need it to run cool at speed, do not use an aftermarket shroud. We use the stock primary fan on all our race builds and have never run out of cooling. A typical Miata will need to sit and idle however, so the single OEM primary fans is needed for
I was using a aftermarket slab of a fan shroud with two fans. Anyone want to buy a Mishimoto double fan shroud?
I can't say that's your issue 100%, but I remember when I was looking into radiators the recommendation was to avoid the Mishimoto fans. I grabbed their radiator (still undecided if that was a good call), but am running stock shrouds/fans.
Yes because the Mishimoto fans are garbage and much worse than OEM fans when it comes to CFM / air moved. Even most aftermarket fans are worse than OEM. If you really want to upgrade your stock fans you gotta look at as big a SPAL fan you can fit on your radiator. Those are 70$+ per fan, more if you want to go the fancy pwm controlled route. And you'll need to run them through a relay to handle the higher current drawn.
*edit* I'm also going to post my response to your PM @Sezgin in this thread because it makes more sense to me.
First and foremost if you have cooling issues you should check and fix your ducting. Any air coming in from the bumper mouth should be directed through the radiator. Not around it. So if you're not running an engine undertray first thing to fix. Any space between the radiator and the frame => compriband / expanding foam tape to fill the gaps. Then you can get creative with plastic or aluminium panels or buy an aftermarket ducting kit if you want to go the fancy route.
Regarding a Spal fan upgrade - I had issues with coolant temperatures spiking to 100-105°C on very hot days(30°C+) with the AC running and standing in traffic or moving at slow speed. Replaced the secondary AC fan with a Spal va10-ap50/c-61a.
06-26-2024, 09:11 PM
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