TDR Aluminum Crank Pulley vs ATI Damper
#41
Thanks Madjak for amazing visual! And thanks for everyone who has contributed to this thread. At this point it seems very clear on the necessity of having those vibrations dampened.
Just playing devil's advocate here, Is it possible that the timing belt, accessory belt and water pump/ alternator belt apply a dampening effect to the vibrations on the crankshaft?
Just playing devil's advocate here, Is it possible that the timing belt, accessory belt and water pump/ alternator belt apply a dampening effect to the vibrations on the crankshaft?
There is an awesome video of the early F1 v10 engines shifting on the dyno. They used to get this amazing warble sound as they changed gears which was caused from the crank flexing rotationally.
#44
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I think that I have done enough research and read enough advice from you guys to decide to go with using a damper and not fragging my engine. Thanks guys!
Now, the next question I have is going with ATI or Fluidampr? I've read from both sides who each swear by their life to their respected side. Do we have anyone here who has tried both of these dampeners?
Now, the next question I have is going with ATI or Fluidampr? I've read from both sides who each swear by their life to their respected side. Do we have anyone here who has tried both of these dampeners?
#45
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I have experience with both. I used to resell the Supermiata/BHJ damper, but when that left the market I was stuck with suggesting the ATI to customers who were having me build them engines. So, while I have never sold an ATI, I have installed a few of them.
I am not a fan of the ATI for several reasons. Their QC is poor at best. Earlier this year they had to RMA several dozen dampers due to misaligned crank gear teeth, an issue which I brought to their attention. They apparently have had this same issue in the past as well, since I've seen at least one post from an ATI owner with a misaligned crank gear from a damper made in ~2015 IIRC. They also hold poor tolerances to the ID of the crank hub, so pressing them onto the crank nose ranges from "easy" to "impossible". Because they integrate the crank gear to the damper, you also have to install the timing belt at the same time, which is annoying, especially when you are trying to ensure that the damper isn't drawing the woodruff key up its keyway and jamming the whole thing together.
The Fluidampr is the newcomer to the market, and IMO it is the superior product. They do not integrate the crank gear, which means you can install and remove the damper without disturbing the timing belt, and it doesn't have any of the press-fit or other QC issues that the ATI has.
I only sell products which I like/use, and I only sell the Fluidampr.
I am not a fan of the ATI for several reasons. Their QC is poor at best. Earlier this year they had to RMA several dozen dampers due to misaligned crank gear teeth, an issue which I brought to their attention. They apparently have had this same issue in the past as well, since I've seen at least one post from an ATI owner with a misaligned crank gear from a damper made in ~2015 IIRC. They also hold poor tolerances to the ID of the crank hub, so pressing them onto the crank nose ranges from "easy" to "impossible". Because they integrate the crank gear to the damper, you also have to install the timing belt at the same time, which is annoying, especially when you are trying to ensure that the damper isn't drawing the woodruff key up its keyway and jamming the whole thing together.
The Fluidampr is the newcomer to the market, and IMO it is the superior product. They do not integrate the crank gear, which means you can install and remove the damper without disturbing the timing belt, and it doesn't have any of the press-fit or other QC issues that the ATI has.
I only sell products which I like/use, and I only sell the Fluidampr.
#46
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Bumping this. Just saw another confirmed oil pump failure on the Trackable Miatas FB group from a guy using a TDR pulley. 500 miles and the oil pump let go.
If you are using a TDR pulley, have your car towed to a mechanic and reinstall the stock damper
If you are using a TDR pulley, have your car towed to a mechanic and reinstall the stock damper
#49
Gary from TDR found out about my misfortune and called me yesterday. I give him credit for the customer service part. He explained his opinions on dampers and how the pulley didn't cause the issue. I asked if he would back his claims up and warranty my next motor, after a little hesitation he said yes.
I'm too old to deal with pulling motors like this, going with the fluidampr and a 4 rib setup. Good luck to me for finding the right sized belt.
#50
Hanging my head in shame....
Gary from TDR found out about my misfortune and called me yesterday. I give him credit for the customer service part. He explained his opinions on dampers and how the pulley didn't cause the issue. I asked if he would back his claims up and warranty my next motor, after a little hesitation he said yes.
I'm too old to deal with pulling motors like this, going with the fluidampr and a 4 rib setup. Good luck to me for finding the right sized belt.
Gary from TDR found out about my misfortune and called me yesterday. I give him credit for the customer service part. He explained his opinions on dampers and how the pulley didn't cause the issue. I asked if he would back his claims up and warranty my next motor, after a little hesitation he said yes.
I'm too old to deal with pulling motors like this, going with the fluidampr and a 4 rib setup. Good luck to me for finding the right sized belt.
You'll be fine on finding a belt, they offer them in tons of different lengths, just measure the belt path with string or a longer, cut belt and order the appropriate length.
#51
Hanging my head in shame....
Gary from TDR found out about my misfortune and called me yesterday. I give him credit for the customer service part. He explained his opinions on dampers and how the pulley didn't cause the issue. I asked if he would back his claims up and warranty my next motor, after a little hesitation he said yes.
I'm too old to deal with pulling motors like this, going with the fluidampr and a 4 rib setup. Good luck to me for finding the right sized belt.
Gary from TDR found out about my misfortune and called me yesterday. I give him credit for the customer service part. He explained his opinions on dampers and how the pulley didn't cause the issue. I asked if he would back his claims up and warranty my next motor, after a little hesitation he said yes.
I'm too old to deal with pulling motors like this, going with the fluidampr and a 4 rib setup. Good luck to me for finding the right sized belt.
#52
I think I found the problem...
I finally had time to pull apart the engine that died at Summit Point while running the TDR crank pulley. I assume this isn't what the oil pump is supposed to look like.
There is quite a bit of metal flakes at the bottom of the pan and on the pickup screen.
Merry Christmas to everyone here, and have a safe and Happy New Year,
There is quite a bit of metal flakes at the bottom of the pan and on the pickup screen.
Merry Christmas to everyone here, and have a safe and Happy New Year,
Last edited by poormxdad; 12-25-2018 at 09:27 AM.
#55
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It is not.
As Sixshooter said, plan on a full teardown. Tiny bits of that gear are now surrounding the lifters (if this were an NA, they'd also be inside the lifters), in between the main and rod bearings / journals, floating around in the various oil passages, and so on.
And, in all seriousness, thank you for posting evidence of why removing the crankshaft damper is a bad thing.
As Sixshooter said, plan on a full teardown. Tiny bits of that gear are now surrounding the lifters (if this were an NA, they'd also be inside the lifters), in between the main and rod bearings / journals, floating around in the various oil passages, and so on.
And, in all seriousness, thank you for posting evidence of why removing the crankshaft damper is a bad thing.
#58
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Yeah, it's hard to say in situations like this.
Maybe the cam & lifter bores are fine. Maybe they're not.
Based on experiance, it's a toss up. How much is your time worth, and what, if any, special parts are in this motor that you'd really like to reuse?
Maybe the cam & lifter bores are fine. Maybe they're not.
Based on experiance, it's a toss up. How much is your time worth, and what, if any, special parts are in this motor that you'd really like to reuse?
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