Increasing FP voltage vs. AFPR
#1
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Since I own a 99 with a returnless fuel system, installing an afpr isn't the easiest thing to do. What if you use increased voltage to increase the output of the fuel pump instead? It should be able to blow past the in tank regulator and provide more pressure to the rail when you need it.
Seem plausable?
Seem plausable?
#2
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Fuel pressure at the rail is a function of the fuel pressure regulator.
Now, we know from experience that it's possible to force enough fuel into the system to exceed the bypass capacity of the FPR (eg: with a Walbro 255) however this isn't a very pricise way to handle fueling. And to achieve this by over-volting a stock fuel pump? Seems like you'd destroy the pump before you increased its output sufficiently to overwhelm the stock FPR.
This is a bad idea.
Now, we know from experience that it's possible to force enough fuel into the system to exceed the bypass capacity of the FPR (eg: with a Walbro 255) however this isn't a very pricise way to handle fueling. And to achieve this by over-volting a stock fuel pump? Seems like you'd destroy the pump before you increased its output sufficiently to overwhelm the stock FPR.
This is a bad idea.
#3
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Edit - ^Beat me to it......
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think more voltage to an electrical component INSIDE of a gas tank is the smartest of ideas. That being said, you would burn out the motor really fast for the amount of voltage you need to up the pressure if it even works like that. Just drill/tap the other end of the fuel rail like everyone else.
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think more voltage to an electrical component INSIDE of a gas tank is the smartest of ideas. That being said, you would burn out the motor really fast for the amount of voltage you need to up the pressure if it even works like that. Just drill/tap the other end of the fuel rail like everyone else.
#4
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A fuel pump is just an electric motor. The more voltage you send to it (within reason) the faster it will spin.
I did some googling and found that Kenny Bell beat me to it.
Great read! http://kennebell.net/techinfo/genera...heory_kens.pdf
I did some googling and found that Kenny Bell beat me to it.
Great read! http://kennebell.net/techinfo/genera...heory_kens.pdf
#6
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Just pondering other options.
I currently use a walbro 190HP.
http://kennebell.net/techinfo/genera...heory_kens.pdf Here is another discription.
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http://kennebell.net/techinfo/genera...heory_kens.pdf Here is another discription.
Last edited by flounder; 12-03-2011 at 03:59 PM.
#7
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Fuel pressure at the rail is a function of the fuel pressure regulator.
Now, we know from experience that it's possible to force enough fuel into the system to exceed the bypass capacity of the FPR (eg: with a Walbro 255) however this isn't a very pricise way to handle fueling. And to achieve this by over-volting a stock fuel pump? Seems like you'd destroy the pump before you increased its output sufficiently to overwhelm the stock FPR.
This is a bad idea.
Now, we know from experience that it's possible to force enough fuel into the system to exceed the bypass capacity of the FPR (eg: with a Walbro 255) however this isn't a very pricise way to handle fueling. And to achieve this by over-volting a stock fuel pump? Seems like you'd destroy the pump before you increased its output sufficiently to overwhelm the stock FPR.
This is a bad idea.
IDK, you could argue that using a restriction in the line to increase pressure puts more strain on the pump, than increasing voltage would. You could control it with a hobbs switch to increase voltage only under boost and get the benefit of smaller injectors which would help idle conditions.
With just my 190hp I see 62psi at idle. With the old one it never built up over 58psi, fpr is set for 60psi. I bet one or two more volts would bump that up to 70.
#8
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You could control it with a hobbs switch to increase voltage only under boost and get the benefit of smaller injectors which would help idle conditions.
#16
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Yeah, I know. And the current-gen Subarus use PWM to adjust the power to the fuel pump in response to demand.
Doesn't change the fact that trying to manage the fuel supply of an NB by over-volting the stock pump is going to be unpredictable at best and cause failures at the worst. I can see no reason not to install an inline pump under the hood and create a local recirculating loop through a rising-rate FPR. That's the easiest way to achieve stable, controllable fueling given the requirement not to embiggen the injectors.
Doesn't change the fact that trying to manage the fuel supply of an NB by over-volting the stock pump is going to be unpredictable at best and cause failures at the worst. I can see no reason not to install an inline pump under the hood and create a local recirculating loop through a rising-rate FPR. That's the easiest way to achieve stable, controllable fueling given the requirement not to embiggen the injectors.
#18
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I've been looking into a few options for running a walbro 255 in my NA lately... Currently leaning toward using an acura RL fuel pump resistor with a relay to create a two speed setup, i.e. at some level of boost take the resistor out of the circuit. Surely with a bit lower voltage the stock NA FPR can deal w/ a 255. The sexier option is to get a Ford FPDM which is basically an amplifier/PWM multiplier and drive it with my MS3 via one of the generic PWM outputs, there's a guy whose at least proved its possible on locostusa.
An even sexier option is to run this guys board: http://www.madhu.com/content/Main/FuelPumpController and go returnless... But alas, the ford and gm ppl have figured out that the gerotor walbro's die an early death because the circuits end up sending them too low of a voltage. The DW and new aeromotive stealth pumps don't have this issue tho as they're turbine pumps... I'm just not sold enough on the idea to take it to that level though... Someone else should be the guinea pig.
An even sexier option is to run this guys board: http://www.madhu.com/content/Main/FuelPumpController and go returnless... But alas, the ford and gm ppl have figured out that the gerotor walbro's die an early death because the circuits end up sending them too low of a voltage. The DW and new aeromotive stealth pumps don't have this issue tho as they're turbine pumps... I'm just not sold enough on the idea to take it to that level though... Someone else should be the guinea pig.