aftermarket trigger wheel and parallel diypnp
#1
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I'm finally pulling the trigger on a diypnp when I get paid next week. I'm doing a parallel install on my 99. Is it possible (or more specifically- not a total pain in the *****) to run a 12 tooth trigger wheel with a parallel setup without making the factory ecu **** its pants? Or am I stuck with timing float? I need the car to pass emissions here in jersey and they do a tailpipe sniffer and scan your obd2. So I can't have any cel's or non-functioning obd2 ports.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
#5
Boost Pope
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Because not everybody lives in Florida:
In many, if not most states which have emissions testing, '96 and later cars must pass a plugin OBD-II scan in addition to any visual or dyno testing that might be performed. Basically, they plug into the car's diagnostic port and interrogate it for both DTCs and readiness monitors. If the vehicle's computer does not respond back correctly, then even if the only thing coming out of your tailpipe is baby foxes, you will fail the emissions test.
thegrapist, have you already installed the 12 tooth wheel, or are you contemplating installing it in response to some perceived deficiency with the stock unit?
In many, if not most states which have emissions testing, '96 and later cars must pass a plugin OBD-II scan in addition to any visual or dyno testing that might be performed. Basically, they plug into the car's diagnostic port and interrogate it for both DTCs and readiness monitors. If the vehicle's computer does not respond back correctly, then even if the only thing coming out of your tailpipe is baby foxes, you will fail the emissions test.
thegrapist, have you already installed the 12 tooth wheel, or are you contemplating installing it in response to some perceived deficiency with the stock unit?
#6
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As for Jersey's inspection, their obd2 testing is weird. They'll hook it up regardless, and you SHOULD fail if you have a readiness code (happened in the case of my civic) but I passed two turbo gti's and a jetta with cat efficiency readiness codes (literally cleared the code and crossed my fingers feet before the testing facility) and passed.
But any feedback or direction would be greatly appreciated
#7
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1: It's fairly safe to assume that for any given combination of load and RPM, the amount of deviation (due to non-linear angular velocity of the crankshaft) would tend to be a constant, as compared to:
2: The stock NA setup, wherein the reference is taken not from the crankshaft, but from the far end of the intake cam, which gives you a TON of spark error due to belt flexation. I'm not talking about a constant deviation, but actual scatter. And,
3: Even with that setup, 250 HP isn't exactly running on the ragged edge.
In other words, if you were upgrading from a CAS-triggered setup, and you were shooting for 400 HP, then yeah, this would probably be a good idea. As it is, the 12-tooth wheel which is currently on the market is targeted more at folks with Adaptronic ECUs, as unlike the MS2 & MS3, those units can't read the stock NB trigger pattern.
Ok, that was... pointless. And deleted.
#9
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In other words, if you were upgrading from a CAS-triggered setup, and you were shooting for 400 HP, then yeah, this would probably be a good idea. As it is, the 12-tooth wheel which is currently on the market is targeted more at folks with Adaptronic ECUs, as unlike the MS2 & MS3, those units can't read the stock NB trigger pattern.
So then there's really no use for me to get an diypnp ms over a dynotronics reflash, is there? Aside from turboing my 99 the only thing I want to do electronically is install toyota COPS, but I can just make a circuit to reduce the dwell time. I won't have datalogging and won't be able to fine tune it, but once it's set up, I don't plan on ever touching it again except for maintenance stuff.
#11
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Here's the big question: Are you planning to go through inspection with the turbo in place, or do you intend to pull it all down to stock every other year?
If you want to try to get through with the turbo, then I highly recommend a parallel Megasquirt configuration using either an MS2 or MS3, rather than any of the PnP models.
If you're ok with swapping for the test, then I'd explore a DIYPnP.
MSPnP is not applicable to '99 and later cars at the moment, as it uses the MS1 CPU which, like the Adaptronic, cannot read the NB's crank and cam pattern.
#12
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There is nothing that precludes the stock cam sensor from making big power. Keep in mind this is the same sensor used on a long list of Mitsubishi 4G63 that have made up to twice the power of any Miata engine.
Does the MS not allow for variable trigger angle settings? Many ECUs allow you to program out any sort of consistent timing drift, which is common to a lot of sensors.
Does the MS not allow for variable trigger angle settings? Many ECUs allow you to program out any sort of consistent timing drift, which is common to a lot of sensors.
#15
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There's nothing wrong with the NB crankwheel. The one sensor on these cars that I do have a serious problem with, ironically, is the 4G63-style cam sensor you mention, which was used on the '90-'97 Miatas. It's not that the sensor itself is a bad unit, but when it's driven by a cam that's driven by a belt, you are going to get spark scatter no matter what. On my '92, I observed as much as 10° of scatter at high RPM, and that was with a relatively new & tight belt. That's when I said "**** it" and built a 36-1 crankwheel setup.
#17
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While you're here I want to pick your brain: how many inputs does the ms3 board have? And would sequential injection be useful for me? The car is a DD for now (I'm buying an ms6 for snowy days and taking out skanks) I plan on running track days and autocross (maybe 8 a year tops) once I get the suspension sorted out. Nothing more than that. I will put the time into making sure it has a solid tune and will start under any temps, but I'd like reliability and not blowing up to be the top priorities for my build. So any tips would be awesome.
Thanks again for your help guys.
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There's plenty of ms3 docs. It's not really any different than MS2, just better.
Inputs, more than I'll ever need. I can think of 6 generic inputs on the MS3x Board alone + 3 0-5v inputs for sensor logging + a few easy "triggers" (such a tableswitchnig or launch in). Not to mention all the extra inputs/outputs on the mainboard.
Yes, you want seq.
Plus with MS3 you can use the SD card logging when you are on track...
Inputs, more than I'll ever need. I can think of 6 generic inputs on the MS3x Board alone + 3 0-5v inputs for sensor logging + a few easy "triggers" (such a tableswitchnig or launch in). Not to mention all the extra inputs/outputs on the mainboard.
Yes, you want seq.
Plus with MS3 you can use the SD card logging when you are on track...
#19
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Parallel with a DIYPnP? Yeah, I guess you could make it work. Probably a lot more trouble than doing parallel with a standard (non-Pnp) MS. The PnP models are usually only used in non-parallel application, as their ability to plug into the unmodified factory harness is the whole point.
From a purely technical standpoint, the MS3 is better option for all installs. Not saying that the MS2 isn't entirely adequate, but the MS3 is definitely going to be the best-supported system going forward.
All of them.
Seriously, the I/O capacity on the MS3, especially if you have the MS3X expander, is insane. Even Abe wouldn't be able to complain about them.![big grin](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Sequential injection, if configured properly, buys you slightly better emissions at idle and low load (especially with larger-than-stock injectors) which I gather is important in your application.
I didn't really think the MS3 was a better option for parallel installs.
how many inputs does the ms3 board have?
Seriously, the I/O capacity on the MS3, especially if you have the MS3X expander, is insane. Even Abe wouldn't be able to complain about them.
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And would sequential injection be useful for me?
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