AFR's and Powah
#21
m2cup car and y8 are on point... i basically said it in my first post on this topic also....... also i talk to all my friends that work in the tuning industries, motec, efi tech all the time about the race cars and street cars they had played with and they all for street app 11.5-11.8 is best for street. im just getting into the boost stuff now with my own car and playing around. i use to work for a koni cup rx8 team in grand am and i did data acquisition and in charge of the mapping. i achieved 214 to the wheels on a stock rx8 intake and exhaust... and competing with speed source at the time when they were running koni st. anyways getting off topic set your afr's anything under boost 13.8 to 14.7 with the stock spark adv(not sure what 99 is but early 1.8 is about 29-30 at atmos) then pull .75-1.5 per lbs depending on turbo app (meaning size). then go to dyno play with load control (if the dyno has it) watch the live torque and add until it stops and back off a deg or two then go on to next cell. once you do a couple cells you kinda see where you are going and can guess the value close to narrow it down and waist less time...(granted its kinda scary on a turbo car with turbo spooling and waste gate opening). but thats the best way to do it. or the old fashion way.. full throttle pulls and keep bumping up that timming until you start losing torque or not gaining any and back off 1-2 to be safe. then scale your table according. man i could go on all day i got a pool match to go to.
good luck with the tune
good luck with the tune
#22
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,339
Total Cats: 519
Ok, I leaned out the AFR table a spec for off boost. It does drive a spec smoother I guess. The car definately feels like it "falls on it's face" when I'm first going into boost and AFR's hit 11:1. I'm gonna change that to 12.5:1 or 12:1 for the first few boost cells. I can tell 11.5:1 is hurting it. Anyways, what I'm running now:
#24
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,339
Total Cats: 519
AFR TABLE:
Timing Table:
#27
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,340
Total Cats: 6,793
That ain't the problem.
A normal 12x12 table gets rendered at 635x407. The ones he posted are 1024x651, including the whitespace. However it appears that they're being upscaled post-capture, due to the uneven stroke width (and antialiasing) of the text.
Pat, how are you doing these screencaps?
A normal 12x12 table gets rendered at 635x407. The ones he posted are 1024x651, including the whitespace. However it appears that they're being upscaled post-capture, due to the uneven stroke width (and antialiasing) of the text.
Pat, how are you doing these screencaps?
#28
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 573
that's a lot of advance for 500 and 1000 rpm columns. does the MS use that table for idle? cuz if so, you're idling way advanced. and based on your AFRs, very rich. that lower left corner should be all 10-14 degrees and 14:1 AFRish.
#29
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,340
Total Cats: 6,793
I think he discussed this earlier (or possibly in another thread) where he's deliberately running a lot of spark advance, and a super-rich mixture, in idle. He was tuning for max vacuum at idle, and that's the setup that achieved it.
#31
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,339
Total Cats: 519
I was using what brain said to do: Alt and then print screen. That copys JUST the window that's on top so to speak, rather than the entire screen. Then pasting it in MS Paint. Then making dragging it bigger so it's easier to read and doesn't leave a huge white space of nothing. Is there a better way to do this I assume?
As for the idle advance, I do that because I like how it runs. It's quieter, cooling fans run less and less chance of overheating at idle, more edgy. I get 23-24 kpa total map at idle when fully warmed up. And as Mr. Perez noted, I run these idle cells rather rich too because I don't have a working IAC valve, so when it's 20 or 30 *F out, it idles well.
As for the idle advance, I do that because I like how it runs. It's quieter, cooling fans run less and less chance of overheating at idle, more edgy. I get 23-24 kpa total map at idle when fully warmed up. And as Mr. Perez noted, I run these idle cells rather rich too because I don't have a working IAC valve, so when it's 20 or 30 *F out, it idles well.
#35
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,339
Total Cats: 519
Really? What brings you to say this? Most agree 12.5-13.0 is the best AFR for max power. Or is there another reason to run leaner than this seeing how it's boosted? Perhaps helps with spoolup? I'm curious as I've seen a few AFR tables that do run in the 13's up to a few PSI of boost, though that doesn't seem 'right' to me.
#36
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 573
thought maximum N/A power/torque was at 13.2ish... but i'm only saying up to 100kpa, not a few psi of boost. I forget what mine is incidentally
edit: just looked and I'm a little leaner than I suggest. I probably could use some AFR updating, but I'll probably still aim for around 13:1 and no richer at 100kpa.
but it's too cold to go outside.
edit: just looked and I'm a little leaner than I suggest. I probably could use some AFR updating, but I'll probably still aim for around 13:1 and no richer at 100kpa.
but it's too cold to go outside.
#37
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,339
Total Cats: 519
To quote Abe in another post:
As for 13.2 being the number, where did you get that? It's not too far off base from 12.5-13 that I've always heard. Just seems a bit too lean.
#40
at steady cruising speed with very low throttle/high vacuum you should be at 14.5-14.9afr. as you near boost afr should be in the 13 afr range, a few psi of boost 12's, and full boost 100% throttle, i tune for 11.6-11.8 afr. only time i run 12.0-12.3 afr under full boost is at the track (drag racing). and i switch back as soon as i leave. your right about switching to 12.0-12.5 as you come into boost. 11.0 is way too rich at that point.