2.3 MZR in a custom application ECU dilemma
#1
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2.3 MZR in a custom application ECU dilemma
This question is not Miata related......
I am in the process of installing a 2004 Mazda 3 2.3 drivetrain/ECU into my 95 Ford Escort, and apparently the Mazda 3 has an immobilizer system that requires the instrument cluster since its what stores the key code/verifies the key code and sends the inhibit or enable signal to the ECU via CAN BUS to start and run the car. Since I did not know the cluster was part of the system I either sold it or threw it out a while ago and its long gone, and due to how the system works I cant just get another cluster since it has to be programmed with the key code from the key I have which also requires me to have the VIN number and since I sent the shell to scrap along with the title for the car, I dont have the VIN either..
My obvious alternative is to run a standalone but I would like to avoid this since I am not interested in tuning and the time it takes and would rather have something that runs like OEM right out of the box. I am sure a PNP NB Miata Megasquirt could work since the MZR uses things like COP, VVT, and VICS style intake but I would like to try and avoid the hassle of making it work.
Does anybody have a way or know what kind of signal the ECU is looking for from the cluster in order to enable it to start the car?
I need help on this since this project has come to a complete stop due to this problem.
I am in the process of installing a 2004 Mazda 3 2.3 drivetrain/ECU into my 95 Ford Escort, and apparently the Mazda 3 has an immobilizer system that requires the instrument cluster since its what stores the key code/verifies the key code and sends the inhibit or enable signal to the ECU via CAN BUS to start and run the car. Since I did not know the cluster was part of the system I either sold it or threw it out a while ago and its long gone, and due to how the system works I cant just get another cluster since it has to be programmed with the key code from the key I have which also requires me to have the VIN number and since I sent the shell to scrap along with the title for the car, I dont have the VIN either..
My obvious alternative is to run a standalone but I would like to avoid this since I am not interested in tuning and the time it takes and would rather have something that runs like OEM right out of the box. I am sure a PNP NB Miata Megasquirt could work since the MZR uses things like COP, VVT, and VICS style intake but I would like to try and avoid the hassle of making it work.
Does anybody have a way or know what kind of signal the ECU is looking for from the cluster in order to enable it to start the car?
I need help on this since this project has come to a complete stop due to this problem.
#3
Thats unique to mazda. The Ford duratec 2.0 and 2.3(same as mzr but without vvt) has a similar immobilizer system (pats) but you don't need the cluster just the key that matches the ecu (this only applies if you use the stock ecu). If you dont have the key you have to get two keys programmed. Most lock smiths can program a pats key.
#7
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Every time I have been to Mazda to get a key made based on a VIN they have always wanted the registration of the vehicle to prove I owned it before they would make me a key. So while this looks to be the easiest way, the dealership might give him some trouble.
#9
I don't know what an HPT applications chart is and this sounds like it deals with altering electronics. I hate touching wiring or doing any kind of soldering. This is probably easier for some but I would not trust myself to do this correctly.
#10
Just scroll down to where it says ford. Pick one with the correct engine, make sure its the same engine because sometimes the fords didnt have VVT like the mazdas did. HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips
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Thats unique to mazda. The Ford duratec 2.0 and 2.3(same as mzr but without vvt) has a similar immobilizer system (pats) but you don't need the cluster just the key that matches the ecu (this only applies if you use the stock ecu). If you dont have the key you have to get two keys programmed. Most lock smiths can program a pats key.
https://www.miataturbo.net/meet-gree...-myself-74845/
And my 94 Escort Wagon that I plan to F2T swap:
94 Ford Escort Wagon- F2T swap thread - ProbeTalk.com Forums
Just scroll down to where it says ford. Pick one with the correct engine, make sure its the same engine because sometimes the fords didnt have VVT like the mazdas did. HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips
I contacted the ONLY Tuner that offers ECU programming for the 04-05 Mazda 3-- Dynotronics. They told me it cant be done with the 3 ECU currently but that I could get a 06-09 Miata ECU and harness and they could bypass the immobilizer on it, and I am trying to get additional information from them about if the Miata ECU will work with my DBW throttle setup from the 3 and if I cant just re-pin my 3 harness since both ECU's have the same exact connector.
#13
More than dyno tronics supports your stock ecu. epifanSoftware | mazdaEdit But the tuning interface seems so bad that it would have been better if you could have used an hp tuners application even if it meant having to do a lot of wiring.
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Good news! Dynotronics has informed me that I only need the Miata ECU and they recommend the wire harness, but I dont need the key or PATS module from the Miata and they can easily bypass it.
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Does anyone have a complete OEM wiring manual for an NC Miata in PDF or HTML form they can give me? I want to compare a few things to see if I really need to purchase a Miata harness to go with the Miata ECU.
#16
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So I have another question for the ECU experts here.
I really want to ditch the DBW throttle but sticking with an OEM NC Miata ECU doesn't allow me any choice. The advantage to all this is I don't have to deal with tuning all the cold start/drivability stuff like I would with a standalone and there doesn't seem to be any DIY tuning options out there for NC stuff unless I feel like paying $1k.
So I have another thought....what if I just got a MSPNP unit for a Miata that can run COPS/VVT since this stuff is standard on this engine, made my own harness since this is a custom application and used the PNP base maps to run this engine so I don't have to start from scratch. Should be a good half way point between a universal your on your own MS and the OEM unit?
The only problems that I see would be different crank/cam triggers and possibly VVT signals.
What do you guys think?
I really want to ditch the DBW throttle but sticking with an OEM NC Miata ECU doesn't allow me any choice. The advantage to all this is I don't have to deal with tuning all the cold start/drivability stuff like I would with a standalone and there doesn't seem to be any DIY tuning options out there for NC stuff unless I feel like paying $1k.
So I have another thought....what if I just got a MSPNP unit for a Miata that can run COPS/VVT since this stuff is standard on this engine, made my own harness since this is a custom application and used the PNP base maps to run this engine so I don't have to start from scratch. Should be a good half way point between a universal your on your own MS and the OEM unit?
The only problems that I see would be different crank/cam triggers and possibly VVT signals.
What do you guys think?
#17
Much better off wiring it up with a universal megasquirt if you go that way.
There are some off the shelf plug and play standalones for the MZR duratec, they even have like standalone harnesses designed for this motor since its super duper mega popular to swap into sweet things in europe. Cable throttle body wise you could set it up to work with a first generation duratec ecu which used one and its covered by hp tuners and sct but you'd need an external vvt controller. And there's some jeep throttle body that just needs the holes enlarged and it fits the miata manifold I forget which jeep, I saw it on the ranger forum.
There are some off the shelf plug and play standalones for the MZR duratec, they even have like standalone harnesses designed for this motor since its super duper mega popular to swap into sweet things in europe. Cable throttle body wise you could set it up to work with a first generation duratec ecu which used one and its covered by hp tuners and sct but you'd need an external vvt controller. And there's some jeep throttle body that just needs the holes enlarged and it fits the miata manifold I forget which jeep, I saw it on the ranger forum.
#18
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Much better off wiring it up with a universal megasquirt if you go that way.
There are some off the shelf plug and play standalones for the MZR duratec, they even have like standalone harnesses designed for this motor since its super duper mega popular to swap into sweet things in europe. Cable throttle body wise you could set it up to work with a first generation duratec ecu which used one and its covered by hp tuners and sct but you'd need an external vvt controller. And there's some jeep throttle body that just needs the holes enlarged and it fits the miata manifold I forget which jeep, I saw it on the ranger forum.
There are some off the shelf plug and play standalones for the MZR duratec, they even have like standalone harnesses designed for this motor since its super duper mega popular to swap into sweet things in europe. Cable throttle body wise you could set it up to work with a first generation duratec ecu which used one and its covered by hp tuners and sct but you'd need an external vvt controller. And there's some jeep throttle body that just needs the holes enlarged and it fits the miata manifold I forget which jeep, I saw it on the ranger forum.
I realize I worded my initial statement wrong about paying $1000 for something to tune with. I meant paying that much and still not being able to ditch the DBW throttle. I am ok with paying that much for a solution if I have too.
Anyway I looked around and found a place in the UK that makes ECU's and a wire harness for this engine, including base maps and they will even set it up for you. It has all the capability to control all aspects of this engine including extras like A/C and fan control and triple map switching.
EmeraldM3D.com - K6 ECU Info & Specification
Emerald Full ECU wiring loom - Ford Duratec engine
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I sent them an email with some questions I had and so far I have found many people were pleased with their friendly tuning interface even before Tuner studio came along for MS so that sounds promising. The biggest praise seems to be that people can call directly and get live phone help from them if they have a problem.