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I know that Reverant has plans to add an O2 controller to some of his units, but I seriously doubt that exists in the mini.
You will likely need a controller and sensor. No, you do not need a gauge. Verify the MS reading in Tuner Studio via a DMM and you will be good with the gauge in TS and logs.
When you get the thing wired up, assuming the Analog input. Dis-regard if CAN input.
You will take the values of the WBO2 spec sheet and use Tools in TS to "Calibrate AFR"
Then:
In a steady state situation, possibly engine not running so WB is showing it's highest AFR reading. (might even be a default max... for AEM it is about 18.0, even in free air)
Use the DMM to measure the actual output of the controller where it feeds the Mini. (don't heat shrink the joints yet)
Check the equation for the controller, and see what AFR that voltage represents.
In T/S, read the AFR.
Do they match? Yes, good. No, then you will have to adjust the AFR Calibration in the mini via Tools in TS.
Now run real rich (idle and adjust AFR table to real rich and let EGO put the mixture there)
Use the DMM to measure the actual output of the controller where it feeds the Mini.
Check the equation for the controller, and see what AFR that voltage represents.
In T/S, read the AFR.
Do they match? Yes, good. No, then you will have to adjust the AFR Calibration in the mini via Tools in TS.
It is somewhat iterative. Rinse and Repeat. If your grounds are correct, the spec sheet calibration values that came with the WBO2 controller will be very close. However, the above method can be used to verify and fine tune them.
You may find this thread interesting as it pertains to your goals. TD04L-13T on a stock 99 1.8 & self tuned MS3. 2.5" downpipe & exhaust. Reliably making ~240ftlbs and 266hp at the fly on a Dyno Dynamics. He did bend a couple of rods on his previous engine at ~260ftlbs.
Important to note he is warding off detonation by using 102 RON (~100 Octane) fuel, which means he can run more ignition timing and therefore generate more torque than would otherwise be possible on 95 RON (CA 91). I'd like to see his spark table.
Yeah that's almost the same spec as mine so very encouraging! Think I'd aim for a safer 230bhp so not to suffer the same fate.
Good to see Santa Pod on here; many moons ago I used to regularly run my Astra GTE 16v up there. Best time I ever got was 14.82, so seeing those low and sub 13s times is exciting.
I've been trying my best to swat up on MS3; still a bit nervous about picking between that and the ME442. Got to replace a rear arch on the car first so I've still time to decide, but there certainly seems tonnes more info on MS; makes you wonder why the ME is so popular in the UK though? Is it purely because it's of UK origin, and/or specific to the MX5 (or is it because most are handing it straight over to a tuner, and not actually self-tuning?)?
Yes they're pretty spectacular numbers from a little TD04 and a stock block!
MS3 vs ME442 really just comes down to whether you're going to self-tune or have Alex Hickson remote tune it for you. I know Alex will only work with ME units. I suspect the vast majority of ME customers are not self tuning.
Why is ME so popular in the UK? Aggressive self promotion in the UK scene combined with a 'buy British' mentality, plug and play for MX5's, and to be fair, the ME221 was well priced against the MS offerings until the arrival of the MS3 Mini.
The locals here take a dim view of Motorsport Electronics and their ECUs. There is some controversy behind it and a few interesting threads if you care to search for them.
If you are going down the self-tune route then without doubt MS3 is what you want. Better software (Tuner Studio and Megalog Viewer HD) make auto-tuning your VE table easy. Better support from the forums and courses/videos. Check out Andy Whittle's videos on youtube. High Performance Academy also have a video on youtube where they're tuning a Miata with an MS3. If you do run into any problems you can post your .msq up here and people will help you out.
You see, videos like the above you've posted highlight my lack of knowledge in the subject and make me nervous, as I don't understand any of that.
I hate the idea of waiting weeks and driving across the country to spend £350 on a dyno, but I'm also lacking the confidence that I'll be able to tune this thing myself; maybe a remote tune from Alex Hickson and the ME442 is the happy medium solution?
Learning to tune is a pretty serious undertaking and the learning curve is hideously steep, especially if you’re coming into it cold without a fundamental knowledge of EFI.
If you’ve got both the time and inclination then it is a very rewarding skill to have, but it’s not something to be undertaken lightly.
I would advise to first start tuning on a naturally aspirated car with stock injectors. There's not much you can do to destroy an engine this way, but a lot more at stake if you don't know what you're doing boosted.
I managed to get an Aerospace Engineering degree so I should be able to manage this if I put my mind to it (with help from this forum which I'm already very grateful for) ; plus the more excuse I have to spend time in the garage away from the kids, the better! Win win lol.
I've watched Greg Peters videos and seem ok with those so far, I also started on OGPedXing's stuff which is also very good and not too overwhelming (yet). Perhaps there's hope.
Yes, I'd be doing just that: sticking on injectors and MS3 Mini to start off with before I even think about turboing. On the subject, when running MS3 Mini on a N/A VVT engine, do I ditch the AFM and rely on an AIT sensor? Do I already have an IAT? Is this it in the picture below?
The learning curve for tuning is like running face first into a brick wall. But if you like digestjng data and and making changes based on measurements, you will be fine. With an AE degree you should be good to go. Similar skill set is needed.
The advice I give to people starting out is to turn off every single feature and zero/100% out every single things you do not absolutely need to run the car. Get the fuel map and idle sorted (I suggest starting with open loop idle and using the fuel and spark maps to get it stable) and then bring each thing in one at a time. Eventually you get the hang of what effects what and what to ignore, hutnfor starting off, you just want to minimize everything. I won't claim to be good at it, but at this point, I can bang out a decent running/driving street tune in an afternoon. To get to a similar point when I started took a few months...
Originally Posted by EddieJT
x_25, out of interest, what 1/4mile time did you run?
Best ET is a 14.3@99.7mph with a 2.3s 60ft. I am launching soft cause I am still running the original 1.6 diff....
With an aerospace engineering degree, I'd suggest turbocharging an MX-5 will be a piece of cake for you lol.
EFI is a bit overwhelming at first but once you've got a grasp of the fundamentals and the basic process of tuning it'll seem a lot easier. Good base maps take care of AFR and safe timing tables for you. Auto tuning the VE table is easy enough. The nuance is in getting 'OEM like' cold starts, hot re-starts, idle, return to idle, etc.
Originally Posted by EddieJT
Yes, I'd be doing just that: sticking on injectors and MS3 Mini to start off with before I even think about turboing. On the subject, when running MS3 Mini on a N/A VVT engine, do I ditch the AFM and rely on an AIT sensor? Do I already have an IAT? Is this it in the picture below?
Yes that's your IAT sensor. While you're N/A you can continue using that IAT. When you do go turbo you'll want an aftermarket IAT, either Bosch or GM style.
You won't need the MAF because MS3 and ME units use MAP (speed density) instead. That just means you'll run a vacuum line from the barb on top of your square top intake manifold behind your throttle body to the MAP sensor on your ECU.
Correct, you will need the sensor as well as a controller. The kit you linked will work fine. You don't need the gauge as you can use the laptop to read this. Only reason for the gauge, especially with a CAN gauge (not sure if the MS3 mini has CAN or not) is more for a sanity check / something you can check while driving. As far as tuning goes though, laptop is the way to go.
And if I'm tuning from a laptop, do I necessarily need a separate AFR gauge?
I use the AEM X series wideband you linked above. It's fine. I would definitely recommend connecting it via CAN instead of the old analogue way, though.
Also if you don't want a gauge (you don't need one) you could consider the Spartan2 wideband instead.
That controller should come with everything to connect through CAN. I don't have any experience with just the controller as I like to have a gauge in the car. The AEM CAN stuff is a bit awkward to get working with the MS. You have to be on 1.5.x firmware for it to work on a MS3x, I'm not sure about the mini. But if the controller is wired the same way as the controller/gauge combo it will have 2 analogue outputs and a CAN-H and CAN-L output. If your MS supports CAN then it's as easy as connecting the two CAN wires to the appropriate spot and configuring it in TunerStudio.
05-22-2021, 08:05 AM
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; plus the more excuse I have to spend time in the garage away from the kids, the better! Win win lol.
