these cops run at 5v.

How much do the normal na/nb coils run at?

IGNITION COIL (BP4W-18-10XB-9U)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1355938866

Ignition Coil Fits:
1999-2000 Miata

Your Price: $284.88
SKU: BP4W-18-10XB-9U

My COPs cost around $45 for the coils on eBay plus whatever connectors cost from Ballengar.

Er, I think he meant at what voltage.

LOL. I thought they ran 12v source from the Black/White wire? What am I missing here? :confused:

Also: Ran mine on the stock ECU with the 5ms dwell. It worked, but I recommend against this course of action. I definitely damaged one of my COPs. Its a beezy to troubleshoot because it only gets flaky when it gets hot :loser:

Thats what i thought too, 12 volts nah?

Correct on the dwell, however during my research i've been seeing people say that if you lower the voltage you need to increase the dwell time to charge the coils. Makes sense. On our waste spark system we can run 2 coils at the same time in series to lower the voltage to half of it.

I'm no EE, but that sounds about right, but I'm an electrical retard. I'm not sure I'm going to try it though ;) Does the Adaptronic in your sig not have dwell adjustment? I'm surprised you aren't running them sequential.

Well yes adaptronic does have a dwell adjustment however i gotta be able to swap to the stock ecu to pass emissions and i'm trying to keep the amount of stuff i gotta switch over to a minimum currently all i gotta do is swap the ecus, install the maf, swap the injectors, and unhook the wastegate :P.

I mean if a simple change like that would make it work... why not? :)

You need to be able to put the stock ecu in long enough pass your tests? WHy cant you do that with cops wired normal again? I put my cops in months ago back when I was supposed to get my ecu from trackspeed originally and daily drove and raced the car for months with them and mine are still fine.

Most toyota coils burn out when ran at 5ms.

Ok, but how long is it going to take?

At least a week. Last time it took me 2 weeks. Its about 100 miles for the obd sensors to get set.

2 weeks? My COPs took 6 months plus a couple track days worth of stock ECU abuse before I finally damaged one. Maybe the ones I'm using are a bit more robust?

IDK how IL treats inspections, but would COPs even pass a visual? If you are already swapping injectors and crap, you might as well just suck it up and install the stock coil. Its not that much more work once you are already in there. I actually have 2 injector/ignition harness for exactly this reason.

IL does not check the engine bay, they only check the obd 2 sensor readings.

<- jelly

That's really nice. Wheel dyno and OBDII port?

Guess its the same as NH or mass, you show up. They plug in, turn the key to the on position, computer reads that all monitors show passed, testing computer prints out the inspection sticker and receipt, you pay and leave. Or if the shop doesnt know you they also do the safety inspection, all of the safety inspection.

Nope no wheel dyno either.

Step by step.

You drive up, turn off the car, they open the gas tank to check the cap to ensure its not leaking. Next they ask you to start your car and walk out with the door open. They plug in the obd2 scanner. They check for any codes. If you're in the clear you pass. You get a little note that says you passed all the junk (cat efficiency, sensors up to temp, etc). And you go on your marry way. You do not pay either.

:vash:

I've decided to tackle this mess and get few things that confuse me straightened out. Brain were u trolling with the 5 volt?

My one question is theres 2 harnesses on the stock 99-00 coils. Also what do u do for the 2 harnesses? Do you have to cut them out from the stock coils or is there an alternative?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1357311414

The wiring harness in the discussion cops thread shows 1 harness, sup with that?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327066127

The next thing is some people say use a capacitor between the gnd and the 12volt, others say not to. Do i need it for my 99 car? How about the resistor? I have no tach wire so i take it i dont need it either?

im looking at building a cop setup for my new car, and im planing sequential spark. im assuming that the only differences in the wiring is the triggers are all independent?
sorry if its been brought up already i dug a few pages back and didnt see anything.

Each coilpack has three wires. A ground (Black), 12 Volt (Black/White), and a trigger where each coilpack controls two cylinders and that is either brown or brown/yellow. I just cut the connectors and tied the same wires together. Hope that helps explain it a lil bit

Once you unplug the coils, you will have 6 wires: 2 power, 2 ground, 2 triggers. The power and grounds actually go to the same sources so they are redundant. The diagram assumes you have joined the two power into one and the two ground into one, or simply ignored the second set of power and grounds in the second coil connector. Either way, you end up with 1 power, 1 ground, 2 triggers.

I got a dead 99/00 coilpack and cut off the connectors to make a plug-and-play setup, but I discovered it was VERY difficult to remove the insulation filling in the connector and solder to the wire stubs. I purchased an extra PAIR (just in case) of coil/sensor/injector harnesses for a 99/00 here in the classifieds or from PartsGroup and built a hardwired harness. MUCH cleaner, though it is significantly harder to remove. I tried to use a 6 wire weatherpack but my crimps have proven unreliable.

I also added an additional ground that goes to a bolt on the back of the head. Because fuck you, that's why.

I installed the cap, no resistor. I understand (in theory) what it does, so I installed it. There is some debate as to if the cap is required or not. IIRC Tach signal is generated by the stock ECU or Megasquirt in the NB1 (& NB2?) so no need to worry about that. If you have tach before the install, you should have tach after the install.

Correct.

On the NBas i unplugged the cam sensor and the tach went to 0. Somehow i'm not subscribed to this thread so i didnt see the replys.

For those running COPs on their 1.6, did you add a second ground to the head?

I noticed there are 2 'lazzer' diagrams floating around the internet and one utilizes the OEM harness ground wire and the other adds an additional ground at the head.

I was going to opt of of the second ground since it seems like over kill and it's one more piece of cooper spagetti cluttering up my bay.

-Zach

I've also grounded mine to the head and they are working perfectly for 1 year now.

My room mate tried it and he burned 2 out after a few days of going to work and back.

Hi there

This thread made the COP install super easy.

just got it installed yesterday and put on my escort valve cover i grabbed at the jyard for cheaps. (lol they also had a racingbeat style bar I got for 5 bucks!)

I have yet to paint the VC but heres how she looks! running like a baws.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374853430

Okay so I got my cops made but my tach isn't working. I believe this is because I didn't use a capacitor and resistor. Where am I suppose to tap it into? Somewhere in the harness? I'm not too sure if this is causing my leaning issue. Right now it's grounded to the head, and so is my wideband. Would that cause any interference? Will I need to add an extra ground?

What year is your car? 94-95.5 use the 4th wire on the coils as the tach trigger just wire them all together and connect to the tach trigger wire. I believe the 90-93 cars are the same. The 95.5+ cars all have the tach driven by the ECU based on the CAS/crank sensor.

Mine is a 92. 1.6. I'm going to have to figure out this leaning issue

put a 1K resistor between IG- and B+ in your diagnostics box.


it's not the capacitor, it was the lack of resistor.


The Stock ECU provides a pull-up for the tach. This comes out 2I on teh Black/White wire.

When you build the harness, you need to connect the black/white to yellow/blue, which is the tach wire that goes out from the ignitor.

If you remove the stock ECU, you remove the pull up, so you need a 1K resistor from 12v to the yellow/blue wire. Luckily, this wire goes to the diagnostics box via Ig-.

Otherwise, you can make the appropriate connections in your ECU harness and send a 1K pull to 12v out through 2I.

Thanks brain. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I will come back to this thread after logging a drive. "Finding the lean problem". So far I changed my spark plugs to brke7 Ngk and recalibrated my wideband.

So I think I have found my leaning issue. While running the car, I removed the coil from cylinder 1 and noticed no difference in sound. I removed the coil on cylinder 2 and it was running rough. I removed the coil from cylinder 3 and it started running rough. I removed the coil from cylinder 4 and no difference in sound. I'm assuming it's only firing on 2 coils (cylinder 2 & 3). I tried using cylinder 2 coil on 1 and 4. Still no difference. Possibly bad wiring? I'm not running a capacitor or resistor and I have a mspnp.

Aww fail. Trigger wire was soldered to the ground wire... Is there a possibility that I fried anything? I tried switching back to the stock coilpack.. I installed new wires, plugged in the harness, plugged in the ignitor, and changed the dwell settings (crank 8ms running 5ms).. Car is running like the ignitor is blown.. I swapped 3 other ignitors still runs the same.. Any ideas?

Posted in wrong thread...

I apologize. I'll start a new thread.

No no no... I posted in the wrong thread. I just edited the comment cause I couldn't delete it lol

Lol. Too late. I made another one.

Has any of you folks been able to find a voltage vs dwell chart for the Toyota cops?

Similar to this?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377415875

Should i waste time joining both 12s and grounds together or should i just ignore the 2nd set? I'm referring specifically here to 2 wires adding up to a thicker wire or is it unnecessary?

Well here we go folks.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377758104

yes. ive posted it a few times for you lazies who cant take Jason's dwell curve findings, apply a little 3rd grade math and figure it out for yourself...

...this thread is 81 pages long, sorry i missed it. Dont make the mistake thinking i havent searched for it because i have for quite a while.

Alright now that i learned what that graph is called i can actually search for it (before google showed like 2-3 non specific results and then bunch of chinese symbols). It appears that at 7 volts you would be running these things for ~5ms. That said if one runs these things in series of pairs it should bring down the voltage per coil to ~7 volts. Am i crazy for trying it? (To eliminate the need for a dwell reducer while running on stock ecu).

Would the trigger mix things up?

lolwut?

I searched against my posts with the search term: dwell battery cops

this was the first result:

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...22/#post749575

No? When you run the coil at lower voltage you need more time (dwell) to charge it up. The stock NB1 coils are charged for 5ms. The cops on the other hand are only for 2.3ms however at 7 volts they have to be charged for 5ms therefore running them in series should lower the voltage at the coils to 7 volts. Or am i thinking this completely wrong?

read my post.

I did. I saw that thread. I also saw another one with a graph that continued your numbers so ~7 ends up about 5ms.

well lets just hope your NB doesn't ever run at 7v.

Right however wouldnt connecting them in series lower the voltage per coil to 7ish volts?

We have 4 coils. You connect the + of the 1st coil to +, you connect the - of the 1st coil to the + of the 4th coil, then the - of the 4th coil to ground. Same for the 2nd and 3rd coils.

lolwut?!

Not sure if sarcasm of confused. I can bust out the MS paint if you need me to :P

why?

Figured I'd follow up in this thread with my results (even though it's in my build thread). Huge thanks to Lazzer/Brain and the rest of the forum for making this so damn easy.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377869208
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377869208
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377869208
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377869208


With a little bit of filing the COPs fit great sideways. No excuse not to go this route since the wiring runs so much cleaner and you can use the cam cover bolts to secure the harness (important if you soldered the splices like me).

-Zach

I'm not an EE but I don't believe you cut the voltage in half by running coils in series. You would likely double the ohms by running them in series, but not halve the voltage..

But why wouldn't you run them in parallel?

each coil will have 1/4 the battery voltage, so ~3.5v.

good luck with your .0000001" spark gap.

also, you realize when one coil goes bad they all go bad? going to be interesting to see what happens when the first coil fires...as that would most likely momentarily cut power to the rest as it when send the power through the coil.

God dammit and you yell at me for not reading. :noob:

4 coils... 2 pairs of series.

1st paired with 4th, 2nd paired with 3rd.

The main reason i'm trying to work around this is to be able to run these coils on the stock ecu when i have to pass emissions.

i thought it was only the msm that had issues with them on the stock ecu?


anyways yeah i failed to read.

The stock nb1 ecu charges coils for 5ms which would probably burn them, no?