you're going to put a relay on a capacitor?

I believe hes trying to double fix it.


hes using the OEM coil +12v to trigger a relay bringing a larger +12v wire to his COP's AND adding a capacitor to it.

Actually, yes to the relay trigger and no, I'm not adding a capacitor.

My question to Zaphod was regarding this:
I don't understand what he means by "ground and +12v separated....", do you? And can you explain it to me? Is it because the '01+ NB have a form of COPS?

@ Barbycar - there is nothing you have to worry about.

Let me explain -

I got separate lines (ground and +12V) for cylinders 1+3 and for 2+4 (I am not really sure - it could also be 1+4 and 2+3)

My (Euro 1,6 NB) has an connector at the back of the valve cover, which gives my 2x ground, 2x +12V and the two trigger lines.
This seems to be some specialty of the 1,6 NB (which is not known in the US). The lines do come from the same source at the end.

http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...er/COP_002.jpg

http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...er/COP_001.jpg

http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...er/COP_005.jpg

I made my Cop conversion plug and play this way.

Now I have to put one cap in each of the lines.

Thanks for the clarification - now I can go test my setup with one less concern.

I'm going legit homies, like Hector in the NIRA circuit. No more cracking Jb weld! Now I need to redo my harness with this pussy ass capacitor nonsense.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6097562_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7979654_n.jpg

Absolutely brilliant thread.:bigtu:

I think this is worth doing even for nat/asp applications, along with sequential injection and a MS I reckon you might be able to save 5mpg. That's up to 50 extra miles per tank. Petrol in the UK is about $2.16 per litre or $8.16 per US Gallon.:td:

OK, where's the 70 page thread on injection.:laugh:

[QUOTE=Freaky Roadster;704733]Absolutely brilliant thread.:bigtu:

I think this is worth doing even for nat/asp applications, along with sequential injection and a MS I reckon you might be able to save 5mpg.QUOTE]

I'll believe it when I see it. aka, not a chance.

It's a fun project to do though.

:bang: Oh well, maybe not 5mpg then :cry:
Even 3mpg would be a 10% saving for me.:x: and might convince the Mrs on the outlay ;)

I've read 33 pages in, there's quite a bit of information here. Glad to see brain posted a howto, it would be a nightmare to sift through all this and retain everything ;)

Question I have though; Do I need a capacitor for this setup, or is it strictly an optional thing? I can't find the mention of it in the thread so far.. I assume also that I can just splice into the harness before the connector if I don't want to peel off my ignitor connector?

Edit- Edited for clarity, and because I read deeper into the thread.

Well, I've had a poke under the hood and it looks like mine is the "newer" 1.8, the difference is that the TACH signal comes from the CAS and not the coils so only 3 wires to each COP. That's GND, +12v, Triggers.

Mounting
 

Ok, I got my COPs ready to go back on the motor. :drool:

I had a hold down consisting of a single aluminum rod going along the top of all the coils. The rod itself was held at the ends by small brackets secured by the end/center valve cover screws.
My son lost the pieces to the above so now I can make the same or something else...

Have you guys tried like 4 shallow countersunk holes on the aluminum with the head of 4 screws JB welded into it. It would serve as studs for the coils ( ? )

OR am I better off with the old aluminum plate on the valley of the valve cover with 4 holes ? I don't think I can easily source the aluminum plate and then the correct size hole saw. :noob:

^ Several through this thread have JB welded studs to the head, I don't suggest cutting too deep into it, and definitely not with it on the car, it's got some material but not enough to really anchor to.

Thanks for the heads up.

My hold down system was stupid in its elegance or something like that. Mainly, the aluminum rod flexed a bit so while the end coils were held down tightly, the ones in the middle were a little loose.
I think a .250 carbon fibre rod that I have will work....

If I do try the JB weld thing I'll shoot for screws with very broad flat heads and shallow indentations on the valve cover.

Does it matter much what the size of the cap is, as long as it's 10k uf? I'm having trouble sourcing a capacitor for this application, and I have everything else I need. How much of a benefit am I looking at here?

Edit; I found these on Amazon, they look like they might work for this..

They are only rated for 16 V. I would get something like 35V

You don't need a single 10'000 uf capacitor. You can get two 4700uf and connect them in paralell ...meaning the two caps go together postive to positive and negative to negative and they become electically like a larger capacitot.

^ Debatable whether a 35v cap is really worth it. Regardless I'll pull the harness off my old pack and wire it up for use with the new COPs. I'm stoked, just need some wiring and solder clips and I'm good :D

I did my test install today and it fired up first time - Yay.

A question to the electronics gurus - I built a dwell reducer (running stock ECU on my 2000) using Jason's circuit design http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.p...7&postcount=41 but I translated it onto strip circuit card. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripboard. Since the car started and ran just fine, can I assume that the circuit is working and therefore dwell reduction is occurring?

Touch the coils after 20 minutes of high-rpm driving and find out :D

Spit on fingers first and wait for the sizzle.

Or not and wait for the sizzle anyway.:giggle:

I was running mine with the OEM ECU for a long time and don't recall that they got hot. I did touch them a couple of time after a few mile drive...

Two of them finally took a crap while I was burning a file to the Megasquirt ECU.

I guess the extra dwell will stress them even if does not fry them right away.

Alright, I have the COPs installed and the wiring done, but the car is running pretty bad, almost like a lawn mower. It doesn't seem to be a non-firing cylinder as we pulled the clips off all four one at a time and it still ran (didn't start w/o 2 plugged in..), I'm pretty tired so I might have missed something. I didn't trim the sides of the COPs so they are sitting about 1/4" off the valve cover right now... I'll check again in the morning.

Could it be because I didn't change the dwell timing on the Hydra? I only started it to make sure it actually started..

Sounds like it's not running off all cylinders. With it idleing, pull one plug off at a time. No change in idle means that cylinders not working, if the car dies that's one of the two cylinders it's most likely running off.

I'm guessing you're only working on 2 cylinders, either 1&4 or 2&3.

Does anyone know where to find the Dwell time setting in the Hydra app? There's nothing even close to that naming in here..

I believe I have found what I am looking for, but why the hell is it listed under "2D Engine Calibration" and not under Ignition, wtf. Here's my old map vs my new one, using the graph supplied by Jason. The graph and timing on the bottom-middle is the default in the hydra left by FM. Now to test it..

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9...ingchanged.png

That resulted in the car not starting at all. Now I am confused.. :dunno:

COPS In!

I picked up COPS from a V6 Toyota which are the longer style. I had my local machine shop make up a mount in aluminium which gives me lots of meat to work with for mounting the COPs in place. I made up a plug and play harness incorporating a dwell reducer (using Jason's circuit) which practically disappears from view unless you know what you're looking at.

I don't know what the relative availability of V6 to I4 COPs is but this mount opens up an extra source to use. If there is interest I'll have my guy quote me on a few. If no interest then I have a unique install :laugh:

stupid question, but on the 90-93 harness how come a 1k resistor is needed between the tach wire and the 12v wire if your running a megasquirt? what purpose does it serve? i looked around and couldnt find anything about it.

the stock ECU provides a pull-up to power the tach output signal. That resistor from 12v to the tach signal, does that same.

got cha. thanks!!!

ive been trying to google my big time but cannot find the answeres.

from what i have read all toyota cops have the same 4 pin layout.
my question is will the yaris/prius cops from the inz-fxe provide enough spark to better the na mx5 stock system?

only reason im asking is i am having trouble getting the 1zz ones at a reasonable price in aus.

Cheers guys

Yes you are correct that they all have the same pin out. However as that I work as a tech for Toyota. That are all different in length and width. So you just have to try them out. I do have a call into are FTS agent on the output range. I do however believe that they are all going to be the same to 4 cyl engines. I do know that 2gr v6 engine they are to long and the shaft is to wide.

why not turn the plate around 180° so the clips point towards the firware?

No reply from the FTS agent yet but we do have a ton of coils laying around the shop. I'm going to check the fitment of all other coils i have laying around out during lunch. Have been meaning to do this anyway.

Assuming firware=Firewall
Yup, I could do this, but why? Am I missing some benefit?

looks cooler?

installed the prius coils they fitted fine.

all up took me about 2-3 hrs to do the conversion.

as soon as i get my clutch slave cyl il'll be able to test if i fixed the misfire i was getting in second on boost.

Just installed mine on my preboosted 1.6L. the difference is Amazing! After the test drive I began to wonder the same thing someone else posted on but never got answered here. Has anyone dyno'd before and after? I know you cant sit in a car and feel a certain hp increase but I know for a fact that thing woke up a great deal! I definitely noticed Quicker Revs, Better Acceleration, way better idle, and im pretty sure my mileage is increased. its day one so I couldnt tell ya. anyone who questions the COP upgrade is an idiot and are too dumb to take chances. took me 2hrs to wire and solder up everything before work. fired right up and took the 20min drive to work with no problems haha. gonna work on a bracket to hold em down and clean up the wiring tomorrow.

Begi-S coming in 1 week

I'm confused what exactly I need. I have a harness for a 96 but need it to work on a 94. I need the extra connector that plugs into each cop plug, but which part number is that? I have toyota coils.

I have a whole Toyota harness if you want it. Comes with the Toyota wires and plugs. Just splice it in.

That sounds easy as well. What's your price shipped to 48393?

Well just the connectors are $9 each my cost from Toyota. Th harness is of a used engine I installed that had 20k on it. So I'd sell the whole harness for that price which would be 50.95 with shipping.

Anyone near Chicago need a set of COPs? I have an extra set kicking around. email me lazzer408 @ yahoo.com

I already have the connectors themselves. I just need to whatever little piece that goes into the connector itself with the wire and need to find that part number. No way 4 of those total will be more than $50 so I don't really think that's going to work for me.

if you are pulling and cutting the connectors off of a harness then they wont have a part number. There are places online you can buy just the connectors though. I learned that on this forum actually. search around youll find it.

if you are asking what part number my coils are.... 90080 19015

they are on the first post of this thread...

Again, I already have the connectors that plug into the coils. My plugs have 3 wires coming out of them, not the 4 required for a 94-95. Is there any way to buy the little pieces that go into the connector to add the additional wire? Maybe it's called the "terminal" from the saved COP post?

I'd put a picture up but there's stored away somewhere and I haven't really began looking for them since I moved recently.

Edit: Found a pic. I just need the little white terminals for each plug (4 total).

it would be easier to build the tachout circuit in the MS.

I bought one you built within the last couple months. If you can explain what I would need to do in decent detail I could probably do that. Otherwise, I wouldn't know what to do well enough and would have to do the harness deal.

COPs are in and she runs great! Connectors with pigtails I purchased from Ballenger Motorsports as listed previously in this thread and in the FAQ. As you can see, the BM connectors are white and ALL the wires in the pigtails are black. It can get confusing during assembly, but that's why I have a Fluke DMM with continuity tester. I could not find coils locally so I bought from Splitime in the FS section. I can post the Toyota PN later if anyone is interested. Capacitor is a 10,000uf 25v model from Frys Electronics. I threw some 1" loom around it and there was still about 1/4" of gap at the split. I have a far smaller 16v but I couldn't find it at the time. I'm not running the dwell reducer circuit at this point because I don't feel I have the skills to build one. Anyone want to sell me one?

Attachment 241019
The car is a CA Emissions spec NB1 with factory ECU (for now) so sucks on whoever said these things will not run with a CA spec ECU. Valve cover is unmodified. The COPS were a little tight to get in, but a whack with the top of my hand seated them just fine. They actually feel secure enough that I don't feel a need to build a hold down plate quite yet. I built the harness with a 6 position weatherpack connector that Splitime included with his kit of parts. I need to add a ring terminal for my additional block ground, but it seems to work fine without it for now.

Attachment 241020
Another 6pin weatherpack on the factory coil connectors so I can swap back if the need arises.

Big time +1 to all the folks who helped develop and explain this so n00bs like me could figure it out. It's great to have a cheap alternative to the FAILBOAT 99/00 factory coils.

Time to add COPs to my signature and open up the gaps on them plugs!

why does everyone point them forward?

And why does everyone add the cap and the additional ground? I've installed 7 kits so far, no cap or extra ground, yet all setups work great?!?!

They go faster that way? :ugh2: It made it easier to remove the connectors while test fitting. Hivemind seems to like the cap and it came with the bag-o-parts I got from Splitime, so why not use it?

I can point them the other way if it makes :brain: happy :giggle:

Where do you get the 10,000 uF capacitors from? I cant locate them anywhere. Are they supposed to be 12V? I can find 18V 10,000 but thats about all.

I'd say get 18V at a minimum.

What would be the optimum Voltage to get. I just assumed you had to get 12V due to the 12V system of the car ?

63V like this onehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BHC-Aerovox-10...item3f03af25a7

Or 35V like this which isnt audio
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Radial-Electro...item562c5c76f0

a voltage rating high enough that doesnt cause the cap to explode.

the voltage rating of a cap is the maximum voltage you want to expose it to.

Ok so what is the maximum voltage you would expose the capacitor to? I assume you just need a capacitor that will take slightly more voltage than this maximum limit.

what voltage does your car run at? :)