^ yea its a Megasquirt thing. Here my finished product.

Simple, and it works.

You wouldn't be able to feel it unless you ran the dwell at 5ms at 7000rpm for 15 minutes and then 2.5ms@7000rpm for another 15 minutes. Tooling around town ~3500rpm doesn't count.

Does anyone have a square wave generator with pwm control so they can run those coils at "7000rpm" (30hz wasted/15hz sequential) for awhile and see if 5ms pulse actually makes it too hot? Then compair it to 2.5ms.

Anyone who has a MS can do it - at least in MS-II you can run the outputs however you want. Also good for flow testing injectors: Ask for 100 pulses of 3 ms each at 100 ms intervals or whatever. I ran my coils out of the engine at ~7000 rpm and it was impressive, just a constantly buzzing blue light.

Also, 30 hz * 60 sec/min = 1800 rpm.

I did:
7000rpm /2(fourstroke) /2 (batch fire) = 1750min/60 = 29.1hz

EDIT - ok I goofed. It fires once per rev. so 7000/60 = 116hz or 58hz in sequential.

So yeaaaa. Those who installed cops, did you have to change your cranking PW's or am I the only one?

Arkmage showed me his, he has a similar setup to mine and they are really really low compared to what I was using with the factory coil.

Is your "start PW" measured in ms? If so set it to 2.5ms or whatever your dwell is.

actually, if sam is indeed referring to ignition and not injection pw, you'd want your cranking dwell to be longer than your running dwell because voltage is much lower.

Injection PW, Im sorry. I should have been much clearer.

Forgive Me, I Have To Ask!
 

I've read through this thread from start to finish twice now. I've been down to my car and think I understand the wiring and what's involved. I think I know what to buy and where to buy it and what cars to look at in junkyards... but:

Can someone (LAZZER, BRAIN, SAM, BEN, etc...) who has been a major contributor to this thread please create a detailed "STICKY" with about 5 posts that takes people STEP-BY-STEP through this thing.

It should include part numbers for all the connectors, where to buy, a list of compatible OEM COP's, a detailed drawing of how EXACTLY to wire the thing up. Where to cut and exactly the lengths to cut everything. Real pics (w/appropriate markers labeled by MS Paint) would be awesome. Exactly what things to change in the various ECU's people will run with them... REALLY dumb it down in a clear and consolidated thread.

This thread is awesome, but it's going on 1100posts now and somebody could do an invaluable service to the community by composing an idiot-proof 1-stop shopping for the rest of us.

Yes, I know there has been a mild amount of pain and "why don't you sack up and do it yourself" and I understand that. But please, somebody have mercy on the Arts majors on the forum and make it easy for us. I mean really easy. I'd do it for you if I was the first to try something (my new seat doesn't count).

I'll be going to the junkyard this weekend to bag me some COP's, so if you could have the writeup done by then, that would be great. And I'm gonna need you to come in on Saturday to fix those TPS reports. OK, great.

Scott did that long ago. It's in the archives.

^

Done

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12704

I feel so dumb I'm not going to even edit my request above.

I searched and didn't find that thing. I did a title search for COP and read them all and I never found that thread....

AHA, upon further investigaion, I am vindicated. He actually spelled out "Coil on Plug" in the title of that thread. Well, that will teach him... make me show my ass and ask for help and it was there all the time... stupid Braineak...

Is the diagram for the 1.6 correct? I know there has been some discussion that Lazzer's original drawing had the triggers wrong.

This is what I think, based on 0 evidence
If you're going to cut the connector off the car's harness, then follow the diagram. If you're going to hollow out an ignitor and use that for the plug, then reverse the triggers.

I'm using an old ignitor. I'll use the factory wiring diagram to make sure I get it right.

I think you're dyslexic or something....i installed cops with both methods, same diagram. no issues.

I've done several of em, same result

I hope im the only unlucky one here. To get my shit started just now I had to roll back all my cranking PW's - 3.5 @ 40 and 3.3 @ 60, cut down my ASE - starts at 40 works its way down by 5 and reduce its total time to 5 seconds, and increase my warmup.

Some weird shit is going on with these. They require less fuel to start the engine, then more to keep it running during warmup. But once its warm they are golden.

I am gonna try another cold start tomorrow night and let you guys know the results. Im still lost why something with a more powerful spark needs less fuel to get going, considering most of you, from what I understand, are swapping them in with no modifactions to anything fuel related.

Little update on my 1,6 NB COP conversion:

In post Nr. 712
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showpost.php?p=170441&postcount=712
in this thread I described my way of doing the harness and special harness connector on the 1,6 NB (special because I suppose the 1,8 hasn't got this connector) - and that I got no spark.

Well, after a while of lost confidence and I made a last try. I soldered a big ground wire to the harness ground wires, plugged all in - and it runs. (Maybe I should have listened to Ben who told me several times to try a good separate ground... ;) )
Another possibility is - I just unplugged my EMB and had just the OEM ECU plugged in. Has anyone running the COP with EMB or (more important now for me) EMU? Is it possible, that the EMB or EMU is changing the trigger too much?

Just one more question according the mounting bracket for the coils. If I just plug the coils in - they sit flush with the cam cover. If I make a mounting plate (Braineack style) the coils will be sitting about 0.3 inch higher - do they still reach to the contact of the plugs?
http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...er/COP_012.jpg

It looks like it would be possible to turn Nr. 1 and 3 about 180 degrees and bolt Nr. 1 and 4 to the original cam cover bolts and make a small bracket for Nr. 2&3. Anyone tried this?
http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...er/COP_013.jpg

Thanks!
It's running!:bowrofl:

Did you have to do anything to your cranking pw's?

If it helps, the only thing I changed was the cranking and running dwell times (and even that some people are still debating about) after installing my cops. I'm all stock aside from a MSPNP 9697 and the COPs. The car has started down to about 40F coolant temps.

There also seems to be debate on how COPs effects timing. I find it hard to believe it could be several degrees advance or even retard at high RPMs because my engine would either be dirt slow or would have blown up by now if that was the case.

Why am I and Arkmage the only two with such weird cranking PW's.

The Toy COPs have a self protection feature that curtails its on time (spark comes early) if the on time is longer than some amount. This amount extends when the supply voltage is below something like 10.5V. I have the numbers in my notebook.

Is this the problem you are seeing?

No. I am seeing that in order to get my car to start after the COP install I had to lower my cranking pulsewidths.

Ponder this. Arkmage has 460CC injectors and cops. His PW's start at 1.9 in 160F and finish at 3.5 at -40F.

I have to renew my previous question (because I think it was a little lost in my last post)-

Is someone out there running the COP conversion with emanage blue or ultimate? Could the EMB have been the cause for my problems at the first attempt to the COP conversion?

Thanks
Greets

i know it's mentioned in one of these 50 pages, but i know it can be run with EMB or EMU, but could it be run sequential ignition, i know EMU has 4 channels that can be set up for sequential, but would it work?

I just have heard that someone over here in Germany has the EMU with the COP conversion running.

Thanks again.

Greets

Um, wow? Toyota decided to explode a whole motor to keep a coil from firing a bit late?

That's hard to believe, and easy to test. Set it for 500 ms dwell and see if the sparks come early.

More likely, there are several production chips which start late on the next cycle, based on what they see in the current one. No harm, no foul.

What are you guys using for Min Discharge with COPs? Maybe thats my problem.

I'm headed to the PickNPull tomorrow in search of COPS.
If I find any, I'll purchase the coil connectors tomorrow as well.

Question... are there any other OEM applications for the Mazda ignitor. My goal is not to hack up any part of anything and I'd like to source a spare one. Perhaps in another BP-engined car... Escort or similar?

I asked the same thing. I wish I had the parts interchange lists. I'm sure -something- has to use it.

I'm pretty sure the protege one should work, it's the same motor, but I've also heard mounting it can be a pain. Personally, I'd remount the coils somewhere else, somewhere with airflow.

But, think about this:
Toyota COP can be had for $15 each.
A MS-II can be picked up for $250 with case.

It would be cheaper to buy a COP set up and install a MS to run it than to buy a factory coil pack. :-P

Question - on the tyco connectors, which 173631 do I need?

They have 173631-1 and 173631-6 in stock.

Brainy is all out?

I started collecting all the bits to convert to COP before Christmas and I decided to go for it this morning. Armed with my trusty snippers and soldering iron I connected everything up and... it only went and started first time and I didn't even have to change my cranking PWs to get it going (could this be becuase I am running the Hi Res code already?).

I tweaked the VE values a little and now have a smoother idle and am hoping for some better mpg as I'm only getting low 20s to the (UK) gallon... In total this has probably cost me about the same as a top end set of leads so I think it's well worth the effort.

Bob.

PM'ed him a few days ago. no reply.

What year is your car? and did you use both +12v leads that came off the factory coils or one.

so does anyone know which part # is the right one?

Are you seriously gonna order 30 dollars of crimp pins?

Well hard to say, really. I havent gotten the coils or connectors yet so i'm not sure if i've got anything comparable in my box of wires to yet but if it comes down to it, i'd either fab something up or yeah order $30 worth.

I would need those pins too, Braineack hasn't answered. Does anyone have another source or do I buy $30 worth of pins fto practice with too.

Time to organize a group buy.

Did anyone ever order the pins? I need them too and dont want damn 29043424234 of them.

http://www.newark.com/

No minimum order. With shipping I paid $18 for 64 pins. I believe it was about $6 in parts and $12 to ship :) That was shipping to Canada though.

:bowdown: jayc72

Thank Steelrat, was his discovery. :)

Actually, I just posted it. One of the local guys posted it to answer something on "our" board... I'm just passing on the info. <G>

BTW, Jay, I found that I didn't have to mod the pins to get them to lock in properly. When out at the meet last night, I had the coils, and connectors with the new pins. When they got cold enough, they just pushed in alittle more and you could hear them locking into place. (Must be some advantages to this crappy no-spring-yet temps). <G>

Dave,

I love my COP setup so far; .040 gap 17 psi. I have a 1.6L MK2 Link ECU with 06’ Toyota Corolla coils 90919-02239. Required 1K resistor.

Oh yeah! I forgot about that part. I've been running my same old 15 mil gap, even with a great working COP...

How much interest is there in shiney pretty plates, premade to hold your COP set up? Or, an adapter harness to plug right into the OEM connector?

I have a friend who water jets stuff for other cars, makes simple kits. For that matter, what would a kit that already fits the car, comes with coils, plate, bolts, etc so you take it out of the box and plug it in (possibly with or without soldering pigtails) - what would something like that be worth to you guys? Probably junkyard coils to keep the cost down, but it'd keep you from having to source or measure anything.

I would pay 200 for a PnP kit with all the included coils/ect.

If you were going to do that, you would probably need NEW cops. And you'd have to make a couple different plates. I believe there are at least 5 different valve covers out there with different OEM bolt holes in them. Connectors, harness, PnP ignitor box, etc... I don't think you could do it and maintain a decent margin for under $250.

Mine:
Cops-used eBay= $70
Connectors- Conicelli= $19
Wire- RadioShack $7
Pins- Brain- Free
Plate- $7
Rod- $6
Bolts- $4
Ignitor- $30

Granted, I bought a spare ignitor to gut, but to go into "production", you'd need something PnP for the factory ignitor harness (at least on the 1.6). You'd also need a source for pin connectors that are an exact match for the connectors and those are so far not been found. You'll need the rubber inserts for the connectors for another $1 each probably.

Even buying everything in bulk, I think you'll be into the material for one set at around $150 once you design a PnP ingitor connector (who knows how much the creation of that will be). Then you need to manufacture the harness... by hand. And then shipping and all the other little bullshit costs. I'm no expert, but I think to make a decent 10% profit, you're going to be in the $250 sell point. I've never done this, so these numbers are out my ass, but they can't be too far off.

I'd paid $250 for a complete PnP solution (from something that plugs into the OEM connector down to the coils)

The NEW cops would be a pain, a killer maybe. I'm not sure what the rod is, or what the ignitor is, but yes, there would be a minimum of $100 in parts.

The smart thing to do is to sell the plate/bolts/connectors as a kit, let people source their own coils. It's a worse product and costs the customer more, but that's how you make money.

Too bad I don't care about making money or I'd be motivated and do it. :-P

damn this thread is long. but if anyone is interested i want to add a part number to the list of coils to use.
PN 90919-02238 i am not sure if it is there already or not but they work on my 2001 with EMU.

best way to sell a COP kit is wiring without the COPs. This way people can choose to use used or brand new ones.

but then you have to know what coils the customer wants to buy ahead of time to make the plate correctly since different coils have different offset mount holes...
too many variables for this to work out for the seller, too many headaches for very little money...
i may make a few when i do mine, but they will state that they are only for 94-97 valve covers and xxxxx part number coils, someone will buy them lol
i guess i could make the 94-97 ones efficiently, but not the rest unless i had a test car handy to work on

250 is quite a bit... Question, are the COPs from the new mx-5's pnp for our miatas? I went to the dealer and they want 168ea... But I might be able to get them cheaper and if they are PnP then I would be interested... Any thoughts or advise?

You don't let customers choose WHICH cops to use, just if it's used or old. Create a kit for a set of easy to come by and reliable COPs (Toyota Corolla for instance) and say it only comes with wiring, harness, and mounting plate. (also maybe Jason's circuitry for Emanage users)

right, but there are different mounting places for different toyota coils, they are all the same thing, just different offset for the mounting hole, i had no idea which i bought until they got here, and if you call a junk yard and ask for corolla coils they can send you matrix, celica, or corolla coils and never tell you which they sent you...

I'm interested in Jason's gizmo for my 99, as I'm running the stock ECU, and would like to decrease the dwell to avoid frying the COPs.