Some concerns. I'm running mines exactly as Dan pictured them (except for the tach signal). Since I'm using my car's ecu and running the MS in parallel I'm worried about Jman's assertion that, quote:"the stock ECU is running different dwell times than what's recommended for Toyota coils".

My problem is that every now and then when I fire up the car I'll get some kind of noise resembling that of a backfire and a little bit of smoke. I checked once and saw some smoke coming from where the injectors are located so I assumed (yeah, I know about assuming :gay:) that it could be fuel left over. Now I worry about whether the different dwell times may be an issue. If so, should I change those settings?

Thanks,

Rafa

yes you should have changed your dwell to 2.5ms in MS.

It's not dwell times causing that pop at start up Rafa. It's a rich idle from when you shut the car off or your car is setup to prime when you turn the key on. For some reason MS discharges the coils when you turn the key on, so if fuel is left in the cylinders then it will pop.
You said you saw smoke from the injector area, that could mean you have a leak there. One of those pops could have blown off a vacuum line, that could cause a bad idle. If you have a vac leak your idle will surge or hunt around instead of being stable.
Your MS is running the correct dwell times for your COPs Rafa. That's not something you need to worry about.

Ok, thanks to both.

They're both set to 2.5ms so I'm ok there.

Maybe one silly question:

how much do four of the Toyota coils weight together?

I'm about to order some, but it seems the seller wants to rip me off with shipping costs...

Thanx

Bjoern

maybe 2lbs.

If this is/was an ebay transaction, then high shipping costs are the norm. Many sellers make a few extra bucks by charging a high shipping cost and hoping that people won't notice and effectively overbid for an item once shipping costs are included with the winning auction price. Good luck.

I read the last 10 pages and I am a bit confused. From what I understand 96/97 cars dont need a separate tach input run from the COP's because the ECU gets its reading from the CAS?

The second thing im confused about is the location of the coil plug harness under the hood. Is it the big plug above the fuel injectors or the smaller 4 plug one in the back near the coil?

its the plug that attaches to your coilpack!

this has been discussed. use the diagram in the archives. I pulled out all the crap out.

Thought so, then its the plug in the back. i have been scared to flash my ecu using the car for power because I wasnt sure. Just kept using my stim.

Saw the archive, wasnt sure. Now im sure, I saw the "edited" date.

There are 2 grey plugs to the coils on the 96/97. Those only have 3 connectors because the tach isn't connected there.

The CAS has nothing to do it. The ECU always gets its reading from the CAS.

In '90 .. '95 cars the coil packs generate the square wave (by grounding the wire to the tach, ECU just pulls up)

In '95-1/2 .. '05 cars, the ECU generates the square wave

Hi guys. I will be using your info to install COPs. Has anyone any experience wiring for sequential firing with a Link ECU?

simple cop test
 

Is there a way to do a basic test on a toyota cop with just a multimeter? I've been searching around and apparently the primary and secondary coils should have a resistance between a certain range, but I'm not sure which leads I need to check or if this is even possible without powering them on and having a more elaborate setup.

Nevermind. I decided to just buy everything and try it out. Scored this for a pretty good price from someone who swapped engines on a Celica GT. Not sure what I'm going to do with the manual or the rest of the engine harness.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...6/IMG_0659.jpg

One word... Resell. I'm sure someone would be interested in a manual, and someone else might want a new harness cause theirs was damaged? Ebay it mang!! Good luck!

FWIW, I'm one of TWO miata owners who can't get COP to work.. I'm convinced that the ignitors in my coils are the malfunction.

Is it ok to leave the tach input floating on the newer 1.8s? Maybe the cop has an internal weak pull down (up?) making this ok?

elesjuan,

Is your car a 99/00? If so the 99/00 ECU cannot drive 2 COPs at the same time.

I am working on a circuit that will enable the 99/00 ECU to drive the COPs in pairs, and also reduce the dwell to what is required.

I wasn't finished with the above message, but I am sitting in front of a beach in the Carribean with my laptop, I leaned over to get a slice of pizza, and my belly pressed down on the touchpad! :D

The 99/00 dwell times are so long that it will make the COPs run very hot possibly overheating.

Anyway, I also have an idea for a circuit that will generate fully sequential signals for the COPs, derived from the 99/00 cam sensor signal. This will make the COPs run half as hot, good for high RPM operation.

Sounds good. I am one of the people that is currently running the COPs on my stock 99 ECU. I haven't noticed any overheating of the coils, but haven't been driving it much since the swap due to the winter. I am interested in seeing what you come up with.

Jason

Nope, I'm running a 1995.5. Car runs perfectly with factory coils, won't fire with more than 1 coil hooked up per trigger circuit.

The overheating will happen at sustained high RPM.

Thats what I was worried about. Thankfully, I do not road race the car, just autocross, so it is minimal (there is cool down time). I would still be interested in a solution to the dwell difference.

Jason

Wouldn't a small series resistor help without doing too much "damage"?

Won't work very well.

I would still be worried.. I run a two driver car and at some auto crosses it feels like I'm hot lapping the car.. :bang:

Anyone blow the 15A engine fuse with the COPs hooked up and the ignition in ON/RUN?

I was pretty careful with the wiring - did continuity tests on everything to make sure what should be connected is and what shouldn't be, isn't. I'll be more careful next time I hook it up in case I blow the fuse again to see what caused it.

Nevermind, I'm a dumbass. Hopefully I didn't fry the COPs, too.

hows it coming together orion? ill be soldering my cops together this week

After swapping the ground and power wires in the harness (don't ask) I fired it up this morning. I didn't put any load on it, but it started and revved to 6k rpm just fine after warming up. All that's left is to seal up the wiring harness, put the bracket on, and go for a test drive. Should be an exciting evening.

:yippee:

heh - yeah, I did the same.... Stupid bigger wire for power than ground stupid thing.:mad:

Anyone have "Tyco P/N 173631 for .070" contacts". Onlinecomponents seems to be fresh out. Someone have extra? wanna send me 4 sets of 4 ill pay for em.

Scott bought tons of them a while back i think. He might still have them.

yeah i got them i just gotta respond to like the 5 PMs now i just got about them :)

oops.

Cops with braineack-style mounting plate and dirty engine bay. :bigtu:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...n4096/cops.jpg

pull that damn coilpack out of there!

If you guys need weatherpack connectors, I just bought some from this guy. Really helpful guy, and really fast with shipping, his prices are also the best I have found.

http://myworld.ebay.com/elrays-speed-shop

I will after it runs for a week. My wiring jobs usually suck so I'll be carrying my plug wires and laptop around for a few days just in case.

Anyone know if the 4 pin connector on the passenger's side (96/97) for the coil packs is providing signaling for something else? Sure would be a lot cleaner to get one of those connectors rather than hooking up to the coil pack connectors.

^ you mean the one all the way in the back to the left if looking at your picture?

I too wonder what that plug is, maybe it has the triggers?

Yup, the one sitting all the one in back right next to the ignition coil pack standing straight up. If you believe the color coding it has exactly what we need:

gnd - black
12v - white/black
tr14 - brn/ylw
tr23 - brn

In the wiring diagrams it looks like the white/black wire feeds the main relay's coil, but nothing else. I guess it's a pretty easy test if the main relay still works after unplugging the connector. My setup used the connectors off the coil packs with the resin removed, but it's hard to get my hands back there to unplug those connectors. It would be nice getting one of those connectors...

I wonder then why everyone who has that plug there didnt use it for the coils. Certainly easier to cut there then at the coils.

edit: I looked at the madracki diagrams, they didnt show much but that could be the place where the +12v splits for the main relay and engine fuse. I guess as long as you cut after it, then it can be useable. I could be wrong.

Hey Scott, did you get my PM?

f
 

sounds like there is enough info here, to start looking into doing it myself thats awesome. genius

Is anyone using high-temp rated wire like TXL/GXL for these? If so, where did you source your wire?

And what's the consensus on wire gauge? If so, how did you arrive at that number?

Just use whatever the ignition coils have running to them. Probably 18 gauge will be plenty. At least thats what im gonna be using, I dont want to go buy another 4 spools of wire for like 2 feet worth of wiring.

A larger wire is always recomended when you want to keep the voltage drop to a minimum. ~1.36v loss on the primary is ~4500v loss on the secondary.

Don't use #18 for power or ground for all 4 coils. I'd buy 4 spools of wire before I risk setting my car's wiring harness on fire. If it's just a 12" run of #18 from the coils to meet up with a #12 that's ok.

#18 is fine for triggers.

If you're really worried about not buying larger wire, use two strands of 18 awg in parallel fashion to act as larger wire. It should still fit in crimp pins just fine.

if you know any electricians just score some wire from them, they are usually pretty cool guys
my brother in-law gives me the hook ups, pretty much and kind of wire i want FREE
but i used 12ga for power/ground and 16ga i believe for trigger/tach

Ok, I'll look for some 12ga, that's about what I calculated I'd need to carry the current with minimum drop, it just seemed like others were going with smaller.

Is there any worry about heat on top of the motor? I see some of you running split-loom and I'm amazed that hasn't melted. Maybe I'm just a fanatic, but if I had easy access to TXL/GXL, I'd be running that.

12 ga? The wire feeding the coil stock is 1/10th the size. Seems like a lot of overkill. Very much the same concept as putting a 6.5" downpipe on your turbo, feeding a 2.25" exhaust. Not to mention it's like doing it on a 150 hp car.

I'd shoot for something in the ballpark of the same size Toyota used. No smaller, but around there.

20awg on tach, 12v, ground and trigger ftw!

rather safe than sorry eh!
FWIW, my brother in-law (licensed electrician) recommended 12ga on power and Ground only...just to be safe

12ga is fucking huge for this application. I used 14ga and it was stupid big, but it's what I had on hand. 16ga or 18ga would suffice I'm sure.

Really, toyota runs them off VERY small wires. They wouldn't spend the kind of money it takes to develop a COP system with warranties and all the rest, then use wires like that.

12 guage wire is rated for 41 amps.
FOURTY ONE AMPS. Are you kidding? 1 milliohm per foot.


20 guage is rated for 11 amps, and it would take 1000 feet of it to total only ten ohms of resistance. And that's 11 amps continuous.

Do what you will, but I stick by my advice. Use what toyota used.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/photos/252079866_uzPMX-XL.jpg

See the wires coming out of the coil? They are PUNY. See the giant ground strap I have? It's 16 guage, and the toyota wires would fit inside of the insulation of that with room to spare. Spend your time/money/etc on heat sheilding.

THANK YOU

But if whats running in the car is less then what you plan to run for that 12 inches, what difference will it make? Imagine it like feeding a firehose with a straw.

Think I might start my wiring harness for my COPs this weekend. Lets see how much spare time I have...

ok, my confusion has been in the AWG table, whether this is considered power transmission or chassis wiring. i'm not an EE, I don't know the difference.

i finally got time to pull the coils. damn those things are packed back in there. yeah, the OE wiring is really tiny.

I think I have enough 18awg lying around to do it.

Thanks all.