Absurdflow Low Mount (A/C P/S friendly)
#61
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Don't forget about the 3" dp. That will have a big effect on spool. IMO, your manifolds haven't been proven to offer better spool yet. The trade off between short (log) and long (tubular) runners is spool vs peak power. If your design is the best of both worlds my hat goes off to you, but I don't see the proof yet.
I don't think my mani would be the most ideal in all setups. I think it is the most ideal in most setups. I am biased.
I hear ya about the 3" DP and I agree that it also helps spool/hp/everything. I make a 3" bellmouth DP for the BEGI/FM stuff and lots of people say SSGD's are better so whatever, it is impossible to convince everyone.
I don't think anyone local with a BEGI or FM kit will swap out the mani (dyno each), then downpipes (dyno each), then exhausts (dyno each), etc. I can't afford that either, unless I had my own dyno and I am not that crazy yet. The theory on my manifold makes sense in my head, and the few who are using them (with the 2560) seem to be doing well compared to other setups on the same dyno.
#62
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Proof would be spending about 50$ to go to a dyno, swap and the setup overnight (or come back at about the same temp/humidity, or get a good adjustment of the figures for them), then another 50$ and go back the next day (about the same tempurature, same car, same exhaust size, same turbo, same dyno, ect)
It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
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Proof would be spending about 50$ to go to a dyno, swap the setup overnight, then another 50$ and go back the next day (about the same tempurature, same car, same exhaust size, same turbo, same dyno, ect)
It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
![](http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/absurdflowbegifmreplacement/AbsurdFlow-vs-BEGi_hp.jpg)
![](http://www.inoneear.com/outtheother/absurdflowbegifmreplacement/AbsurdFlow-vs-BEGi_tq.jpg)
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It's one louder.
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Riccardo has one of my first exhausts, bryan has my 3" downpipe (not sure about exhaust I can't remember), jes has my downpipe and exhaust. I don't know about dyno plots for any of them...regardless we would need "before" dyno plots to please the people and I don't know of any people running anything I made that have comparable "befores" (mostly due to boost level changes). Maybe Paul, but he's indefinitely MIA.
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what size is your BEGI replacement dp in that dyno?
I understand that proving it takes time and money. It's not as simple as it sounds, not cheap (definitely more than $50), and even if you do what nagase suggests there will be some doubters. But, what you claim goes against the norm, so without any proof expect skepticism.
People have made 400+ on BEGI cast manifolds when there are obviously better designs, like yours, but there's no one making that kinda power with yours...so just because the better spooling gt2560 setup happened to have your manifold it doesn't mean the manifold was the reason. Most of these guys are running 2.5" or smaller dp/exhaust.
I understand that proving it takes time and money. It's not as simple as it sounds, not cheap (definitely more than $50), and even if you do what nagase suggests there will be some doubters. But, what you claim goes against the norm, so without any proof expect skepticism.
People have made 400+ on BEGI cast manifolds when there are obviously better designs, like yours, but there's no one making that kinda power with yours...so just because the better spooling gt2560 setup happened to have your manifold it doesn't mean the manifold was the reason. Most of these guys are running 2.5" or smaller dp/exhaust.
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A nice test that makes some people happy might be my car.
Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.
Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.
I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!
I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.
Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.
My money's on the Absurdflow.
Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.
Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.
I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!
I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.
Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.
My money's on the Absurdflow.
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3"
Thanks Evan. I'm hoping the guy(s) who buy my MSM mani will do before/after plots.
A nice test that makes some people happy might be my car.
Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.
Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.
I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!
I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.
Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.
My money's on the Absurdflow.
Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.
Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.
I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!
I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.
Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.
My money's on the Absurdflow.
#70
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Of course, if the other customer has $$$ then I don't blame you.
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#71
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One could argue that my test would be more interesting. The IHI turbo may be already (apparently) "maxed out" due to the exhaust setup. So, if the manifold still improves spool in my car, then it's really saying something .... vs. if the other customer has a more standard (and therefore inferior) exhaust setup which isn't already letting the turbo run at apparent maximum potential.
Of course, if the other customer has $$$ then I don't blame you.![](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Of course, if the other customer has $$$ then I don't blame you.
![](https://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Also, regardless of ambient temps, barometric pressure, humidity, etc., don't most correctly setup dynos have correction factors that give a corrected plot? I thought that was the case so you don't have to whine about "oh, well yesterday was 85 degrees and humid, but today it's only 80 and relatively dry..."
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In theory the bigger turbo + more ordinary downpipe might make more power. But I'd be nuts to willingly part with this bit of welding ****:
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#79
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Finally picked up my car on Saturday. Thanks a bunch to Paul and Tim!
The car was 99% ready. I needed it (wanted it badly) so picked it up even though they could've done a little more. There was a last minute thing Tim did that changed the tune Paul did. I told them that it was good enough and I'd bug/bribe Braineack to check it down here in NoVA.
Impression: Verrry nice! I'll get pics sometime up. Maybe this weekend? There's a lot more room (turbo side) than I expected. Remember, I've not only got P/S and A/C...but ABS! Doh! That proved to be a "what the heck? Who the hell has ABS?" thingy. So, thankfully there was much routing and what-not...the stuff runs.
Things lingering:
1) need to tweak the tune on the lower throttle position stuff (I'm running MS and factory ECU so I can pass Virginia emissions - damn OBDII stuff).
2) find out why my stereo makes an annoying, high-pitched sound. I'm guessing it's noise in the power cables from the MS that the amp is picking up.
3) get better clutch. My carbon-kevlar clutch was purchased when I was thinking of just upgrading an N/A setup. Ahhh, it can only handle about 180ft-lbs....not 260!!! Mixed blessing. I know my car's got plenty of power now.
4) upgrade radiator and remove the Racing Beat sway bar brace. That brace just totally gets in the way. ARGH.
All in all, it was about what I expected! I knew that it probably would take a bit, so well worth the wait! Beautiful work done by Tim, Paul, and Shore Motorsports...as well as my local shop, Andrewtech (typically Subarus). TurboXS has been helpful as well, and threw in the BOV for free. For not getting an off-the-shelf solution (except some BeGI parts, thanks guys!) this was well-crafted.
Tim was great to work with as well as Paul. Gracias guys! And thanks Braineack for pointing me in that direction. I hope to get dynoplots soon. I also had mild headwork done (99 head, JDM intake cam, mild port, Supertech springs, milled/decked, etc) so it should be neat to see how I compare to Paul and Artie.
The car was 99% ready. I needed it (wanted it badly) so picked it up even though they could've done a little more. There was a last minute thing Tim did that changed the tune Paul did. I told them that it was good enough and I'd bug/bribe Braineack to check it down here in NoVA.
Impression: Verrry nice! I'll get pics sometime up. Maybe this weekend? There's a lot more room (turbo side) than I expected. Remember, I've not only got P/S and A/C...but ABS! Doh! That proved to be a "what the heck? Who the hell has ABS?" thingy. So, thankfully there was much routing and what-not...the stuff runs.
Things lingering:
1) need to tweak the tune on the lower throttle position stuff (I'm running MS and factory ECU so I can pass Virginia emissions - damn OBDII stuff).
2) find out why my stereo makes an annoying, high-pitched sound. I'm guessing it's noise in the power cables from the MS that the amp is picking up.
3) get better clutch. My carbon-kevlar clutch was purchased when I was thinking of just upgrading an N/A setup. Ahhh, it can only handle about 180ft-lbs....not 260!!! Mixed blessing. I know my car's got plenty of power now.
4) upgrade radiator and remove the Racing Beat sway bar brace. That brace just totally gets in the way. ARGH.
All in all, it was about what I expected! I knew that it probably would take a bit, so well worth the wait! Beautiful work done by Tim, Paul, and Shore Motorsports...as well as my local shop, Andrewtech (typically Subarus). TurboXS has been helpful as well, and threw in the BOV for free. For not getting an off-the-shelf solution (except some BeGI parts, thanks guys!) this was well-crafted.
Tim was great to work with as well as Paul. Gracias guys! And thanks Braineack for pointing me in that direction. I hope to get dynoplots soon. I also had mild headwork done (99 head, JDM intake cam, mild port, Supertech springs, milled/decked, etc) so it should be neat to see how I compare to Paul and Artie.