Bajingo

Really shouldn't be surprising. What the US does affects other countries, what they do has little to no effect on the average American. That's what happens when you're king of the hill.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I agree with the first statement. It's logically coherent, though still humbling.

The second statement is false. Not only does the US love to commit military and economic resources to interfering in the affairs of foreign nations, but we are also affected by the policies and actions of other nations. This occurs directly, by things like tarrifs and exchange rates with our trade partners having an influence on domestic economic productivity, and indirectly, by defense spending draining money out of the consumer economy in response to the perceived need to increase or decrease military activity and production based upon the political and military posture of our... non-partners.

And also in other ways.

Imagine that the USSR had not aggressively pursued the exploration of space in the mid 1950s. Or maybe even merely that Stalin had not appointed Sergei Korolev (who was imprisoned in a gulag at the time, having been denounced for sabotage) as the chief director of their rocket program. Given that hypothetical, it's entirely possible that Lee Harvey Oswald would not have defected to the Soviet Union in 1959, and that John F. Kennedy would not have been assassinated by him in 1963. And, with Lyndon Johnson not then becoming President, that the Voting Rights act of 1965 might not have passed, and that the US' involvement in what was then merely the Vietnamese civil war might not have escalated into what we now refer to as the Vietnam War.

Without the Vietnam War having existed as it did, the 1975 Saigon exodus would not have taken place. That resulted in more than 175,000 Vietnamese being granted refugee status in the US (prior to this point, Vietnamese immigration to the US was virtually nonexistent), and THAT would have almost certainly resulted in my not being able to find a decent Bánh mě sandwich anywhere, at any cost.

Soviet policymaking of the late 1940s directly shaped cuisine in the US in the 1990s and beyond.

There were also other effects, obviously.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Joe, all well stated, save the civil rights act. That was all in place by the time of the assassination of Kennedy. Johnson just signed it for him.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Who said anything about the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Do you see any reference to that in my post? (Ignore the fact that the forum shows that post was edited just now. That's a random glitch. Happens sometimes.)

hector

And last I remember there was never a declaration of war against Vietnam so it is the Vietnam conflict. Well, at least that's what I remember being taught back in 9th grade history class

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

I guess 58000 American troops were killed in the Vietnam disagreement then.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

The best phrase which I have ever heard uttered in this regard, which obviously ignores the massive loss of life of those in Vietnam, the US, Russia, and various allied nations, and the upheaval of the lives of Vietnamese citizens which resulted from that period in history, is one which I feel deserves a sacred place in the annals of human history.

It refers to the event simply as this:

"A widespread difference of opinion."


The fact that I, as a person who was born in America only by the longest of odds, and sufficiently near in time to the end of that "disagreement" that I had no chance of being drafted into it, but whose early years were still shaped by it, am able to be here sarcastically making this post, gives me a rather serious moment of pause and reflection.



To wit, I can say only this: The goings-on of foreign nations does indeed matter greatly to the domestic affairs of the US. Forgetting this basic truth will lead to... unhappiness.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

I learned a horrifying fact about the Vietnam war while attending a core course titled "Integration" in Alaska Pacific University back in 1987.

The professor, who happened to be the President of The University said, "Some 58000 US troops were killed during the Vietnam war. Of those who returned home, over 59000 have since committed suicide."
That statement was made 33 years ago, in 1987. That figure was current then.
I never had the nerve to look it up later.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

From what I understand, this is basically true.

It is also something which is absent from the history as taught in American schools.

I do not understand the reason for this. I don't imply that a conspiracy exists here, I'm simply puzzled by it.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

War is hell, and it keeps haunting you long after you go back home. There is no conspiracy.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

War is hell.

That's something which I fear those who have recently been advocating civil war in this country do not appreciate.

Bajingo

At this point civil war is inevitable. The people have been too effectively divided by **** stirring media and influence of filthy foreigners.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

Bajingo

Not you in particular, but yeah kinda. You remember the Russia investigation? Foreign governments stir the pot the best they can, you'd be foolish to believe that only Russia is taking those actions.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

Padlock

Can confirm this 100%.

Both of my grandfathers were WWII veterans. All throughout my childhood, they never really spoke much of the war or what they saw or some of the things they had to endure. They very vaguely mentioned what they did, some of the "good stories", and left it at that. That is, until they were near their deathbed. The "not so good" stories that I heard the last week of their lives are some that I won't soon forget... they completely opened up without a filter... how they held it together for a lifetime without telling anyone or venting about it is something I hope to never need to understand. War is an ugly ugly thing.

Its fair to mention that I was extremely close to joining a military branch out of high school, but my grandfather (whom I was extremely close to) basically sat me down one day when the conversation came up and said that it's not something you really want to do. I took his advice for what it was, but never really understood why he was so passionate about me not joining given his stance as a "proud WWII vet" until he opened up with all the bad stories before his passing. His perspective may not be that of all vets, but it was rough enough for him that I completely understand and respect why he pushed me away.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Serous observation:

I think you underestimate the basic spinelesness of a huge majority of Americans.

These are people who, whether wearing a blue hat or a red one, have consistently demanded more government control, and less personal freedom, for several decades.

Bajingo

We just had a summer filled with riots how can you believe that? What do you think the % of people involved in these riots/protests was? I'm assuming <1%. If 10% of the population decides on civil war there's little that can be done to stop it.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

On a completely unrelated note, President of the Turkish Central Bank was, um, replaced at 2 am on Saturday.

Everybody kept thinking how weird it was until the Minister of Finance and Economy abruptly deleted his twitter account and posted a notice of resignation on his Instagram feed at 7 pm on a Sunday.
Even weirder, there was absolutely no mention of such a huge development in the mainstream media for about 6 hours, so the majority of people living over here have no idea about what is going on.
Monday, November 9 is shaping up to be a very interesting day.