Slowest MSM build thread evar! Now a whole lot less slow.
#61
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
Lots of setbacks today, time for a drink.
Motor was assembled 2/2018 and has sat indoors with no fluids in it until last month. I got it in the car and added break in oil and turned it over on the starter until I got oil pressure and oil at the turbo. All good. Started messing with MS, got it set up and tried to start and it sounded fine but would not fire. Got no spark. Messed with if for a few days and opened the oil cap to make sure the oil was flowing and noticed a broken ARP had stud. WTF, pulled valve cover to find both front heads studs are broken and laying on the head. See pics. Also noticed the rear exhaust shim has been spit out and was laying on the head. Cam lobe is damaged. Not b
een a good day. I have contacted ARP and they do not have any answers and asked me to send them all the studs so they could look them over. I pulled the head today and found a 3rd broken Head stud, 2nd one back on the intake side. The head gasket looked normal and so did the deck. All dowels
Motor was assembled 2/2018 and has sat indoors with no fluids in it until last month. I got it in the car and added break in oil and turned it over on the starter until I got oil pressure and oil at the turbo. All good. Started messing with MS, got it set up and tried to start and it sounded fine but would not fire. Got no spark. Messed with if for a few days and opened the oil cap to make sure the oil was flowing and noticed a broken ARP had stud. WTF, pulled valve cover to find both front heads studs are broken and laying on the head. See pics. Also noticed the rear exhaust shim has been spit out and was laying on the head. Cam lobe is damaged. Not b
een a good day. I have contacted ARP and they do not have any answers and asked me to send them all the studs so they could look them over. I pulled the head today and found a 3rd broken Head stud, 2nd one back on the intake side. The head gasket looked normal and so did the deck. All dowels
#62
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,429
Total Cats: 1,207
That is absolutely nuts. Does this car ever seen crazy low temperatures?
Looks like you might be able to clean up that cam lobe. If you're uncomfortable with that, NIB exhaust cams are ~$200 with a mazdaspeed account.
Looks like you might be able to clean up that cam lobe. If you're uncomfortable with that, NIB exhaust cams are ~$200 with a mazdaspeed account.
#63
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
#66
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
Still nothing back from ARP on the studs but I bought the 949 bad azz ones and put it back together again. Has a few hiccups with the megasquirt not firing the coils but that's solved when we rewired them for sequential. And today after 7 years the car fired up. Littke exhaust leak at turbo vband but I can fix that. Sounded good and ran fun up to tempature. Now to fix the little stuff and off to the dyno. Super excited!
Here it running.
Here it running.
#68
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
So it now had had 23 miles on it. in last 23 mile I have had to blow out whatever animal moved into the brake booster metal vacuum tube. Thing had no power brakes at all with that clogged. Still need to address whatever banging around under car at 5K under decel, prob 3" exhaust on something. Runs ok. Still tweeking AF map and I used Brains spark map. Other issue is the turbosmart WG is hitting the hood. Little trimming and it fits now. Ant got time for that BS
It's on royal purple break in oil now. What is everyone opinion on when to change oil? Use more break in oil, or switch to dino oil or go synthetic? How much time before can throw it on the dyno?
Want to make all the powers!
It's on royal purple break in oil now. What is everyone opinion on when to change oil? Use more break in oil, or switch to dino oil or go synthetic? How much time before can throw it on the dyno?
Want to make all the powers!
#69
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,429
Total Cats: 1,207
Shove that DP against the trans, it moves with it, so it'll give you max clearance to your tunnel. Might help your interference.
Dyno tuning is great for engine break in. What I do is get ~100 miles on it, change the filter, and check the old one for any concerning debris, then dyno tune, and either when you get home or next time it's hot, change it with more break in. Put 500-1000 more miles on it, switch to synthetic.
Dyno tuning is great for engine break in. What I do is get ~100 miles on it, change the filter, and check the old one for any concerning debris, then dyno tune, and either when you get home or next time it's hot, change it with more break in. Put 500-1000 more miles on it, switch to synthetic.
#70
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
Shove that DP against the trans, it moves with it, so it'll give you max clearance to your tunnel. Might help your interference.
Dyno tuning is great for engine break in. What I do is get ~100 miles on it, change the filter, and check the old one for any concerning debris, then dyno tune, and either when you get home or next time it's hot, change it with more break in. Put 500-1000 more miles on it, switch to synthetic.
Dyno tuning is great for engine break in. What I do is get ~100 miles on it, change the filter, and check the old one for any concerning debris, then dyno tune, and either when you get home or next time it's hot, change it with more break in. Put 500-1000 more miles on it, switch to synthetic.
#73
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,429
Total Cats: 1,207
You can technically run mid 12s in low boost, I don't personally like to do it. I'd rather be rich than sorry. If it were me, I'd select the 12.5 row at 120kpa and make it 11.9. Then interpolate vertically to your 200kpa row. The rest of the AFR table looks fine. I personally don't tune much leaner than 14.9 in cruise, leaves room for error, and I'm not sure what injectors you have, but most can idle around 14.7, not sure whats up with the 14 in that area.
Change all your cylinder trims to zero, those should be tuned on the dyno, not preset on some base map.
You've got one of the horrendous air density tables, set anything below 100 to 100.
Your fuel table only goes up to naturally aspirated levels, fix that asap.
VVT table is awful, BPs never want advance above about 5000rpm, you've still got 10 degrees till redline.
You don't have any overboost protection enabled.
There's probably more, those are the big things I saw.
Change all your cylinder trims to zero, those should be tuned on the dyno, not preset on some base map.
You've got one of the horrendous air density tables, set anything below 100 to 100.
Your fuel table only goes up to naturally aspirated levels, fix that asap.
VVT table is awful, BPs never want advance above about 5000rpm, you've still got 10 degrees till redline.
You don't have any overboost protection enabled.
There's probably more, those are the big things I saw.
#74
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
You can technically run mid 12s in low boost, I don't personally like to do it. I'd rather be rich than sorry. If it were me, I'd select the 12.5 row at 120kpa and make it 11.9. Then interpolate vertically to your 200kpa row. The rest of the AFR table looks fine. I personally don't tune much leaner than 14.9 in cruise, leaves room for error, and I'm not sure what injectors you have, but most can idle around 14.7, not sure whats up with the 14 in that area.
OK.
Change all your cylinder trims to zero, those should be tuned on the dyno, not preset on some base map.
Cylinder trim, where is that option?
You've got one of the horrendous air density tables, set anything below 100 to 100.
Will do.
Your fuel table only goes up to naturally aspirated levels, fix that asap.
It's just a break in tune. Got a good example?
VVT table is awful, BPs never want advance above about 5000rpm, you've still got 10 degrees till redline.
Well its a Mazdaspeed so no VVTto worry about, I don't have one.
You don't have any overboost protection enabled.
Ill look into that.
There's probably more, those are the big things I saw.
OK.
Change all your cylinder trims to zero, those should be tuned on the dyno, not preset on some base map.
Cylinder trim, where is that option?
You've got one of the horrendous air density tables, set anything below 100 to 100.
Will do.
Your fuel table only goes up to naturally aspirated levels, fix that asap.
It's just a break in tune. Got a good example?
VVT table is awful, BPs never want advance above about 5000rpm, you've still got 10 degrees till redline.
Well its a Mazdaspeed so no VVTto worry about, I don't have one.
You don't have any overboost protection enabled.
Ill look into that.
There's probably more, those are the big things I saw.
#75
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,429
Total Cats: 1,207
you can trim ignition and fuel, both other their respective tabs. Ignition is currently all zeros, but fuel has some stuff in it, open it up and set all four cylinder tables to zero.
To disable VVT, set "No. VVT" to zero. You don't need a random pin sending out a PWM signal if you don't need it.
For the fuel table, open both the ignition and fuel table. Press the vertical/horizontal button in the bottom left corner of the fuel table, then enter all the same KPA and RPM numbers from your ignition table. Then press apply.
You'll then need to insert values for 100+ kpa rows, and that info I can't give you. Start them maybe 20 higher than the 100kpa row, tapering up slightly as boost goes up, since you're returnless.
To disable VVT, set "No. VVT" to zero. You don't need a random pin sending out a PWM signal if you don't need it.
For the fuel table, open both the ignition and fuel table. Press the vertical/horizontal button in the bottom left corner of the fuel table, then enter all the same KPA and RPM numbers from your ignition table. Then press apply.
You'll then need to insert values for 100+ kpa rows, and that info I can't give you. Start them maybe 20 higher than the 100kpa row, tapering up slightly as boost goes up, since you're returnless.
#76
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
Cliff notes:
2004 Mazdaspeed Engine
Bored to 1.9L with fully built bottom end.
Boundary Engineering street/strip oil pump with 3 shims
84mm 8.6:1 Supertech Pistons
Wiseco piston rings
Manley forged H-beam connecting rods
ARP hardware for rods
ARP head studs
ARP main studs
ACL thrust washer
ACL main bearings
ACL rod bearings
Supermiata waterpump
949 Racing reroute
Square top
1000CC injectors
340lph pump with boost ref regulator
Supermiata damper
EFR 6758
Turbosmart WG actuator
Turbosmart BOV/Recirc
Supermiata crossflow rad with stage 2 FM fan.
Shuiend built 3" catless exhaust
Trackspeed manifold and DP
Megasquirt PNP for Mazdaspeed
949 Twin disk clutch with super light FW
Welded diff housing with 3:63 gears
LS Coils wired in sequential
2004 Mazdaspeed Engine
Bored to 1.9L with fully built bottom end.
Boundary Engineering street/strip oil pump with 3 shims
84mm 8.6:1 Supertech Pistons
Wiseco piston rings
Manley forged H-beam connecting rods
ARP hardware for rods
ARP head studs
ARP main studs
ACL thrust washer
ACL main bearings
ACL rod bearings
Supermiata waterpump
949 Racing reroute
Square top
1000CC injectors
340lph pump with boost ref regulator
Supermiata damper
EFR 6758
Turbosmart WG actuator
Turbosmart BOV/Recirc
Supermiata crossflow rad with stage 2 FM fan.
Shuiend built 3" catless exhaust
Trackspeed manifold and DP
Megasquirt PNP for Mazdaspeed
949 Twin disk clutch with super light FW
Welded diff housing with 3:63 gears
LS Coils wired in sequential
#77
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
you can trim ignition and fuel, both other their respective tabs. Ignition is currently all zeros, but fuel has some stuff in it, open it up and set all four cylinder tables to zero.
To disable VVT, set "No. VVT" to zero. You don't need a random pin sending out a PWM signal if you don't need it.
For the fuel table, open both the ignition and fuel table. Press the vertical/horizontal button in the bottom left corner of the fuel table, then enter all the same KPA and RPM numbers from your ignition table. Then press apply.
You'll then need to insert values for 100+ kpa rows, and that info I can't give you. Start them maybe 20 higher than the 100kpa row, tapering up slightly as boost goes up, since you're returnless.
To disable VVT, set "No. VVT" to zero. You don't need a random pin sending out a PWM signal if you don't need it.
For the fuel table, open both the ignition and fuel table. Press the vertical/horizontal button in the bottom left corner of the fuel table, then enter all the same KPA and RPM numbers from your ignition table. Then press apply.
You'll then need to insert values for 100+ kpa rows, and that info I can't give you. Start them maybe 20 higher than the 100kpa row, tapering up slightly as boost goes up, since you're returnless.
#78
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,429
Total Cats: 1,207
That looks better. With a 110kpa boost limit and 10kpa hysteresis, you'll only hit 100kpa, or naturally aspirated levels. That'll be incredibly difficult to drive at all. Don't treat overboost like a rev limiter, where you don't want to go any high whatsoever. Treat it like a failsafe, so set it 4-5psi over you intended boost levels and it'll only be there if something goes horrendously wrong. Then make sure your wastegate is working properly, vacuum line is well attached, and if you have EBC, it's plumbed and wired well.
Still no idea on those fuel table numbers. Just make sure to ease into boost when you drive it, if autotune starts to dump more fuel, extend that amount if not more out to red line, I'd rather you have to remove fuel than add it.
Also, check your injector dead times. If those are ID1050xs, I don;t think your dead times are correct, and they also provide small pulsewidth information you can enter. Those are the top two menus in the fuel tab.
Still no idea on those fuel table numbers. Just make sure to ease into boost when you drive it, if autotune starts to dump more fuel, extend that amount if not more out to red line, I'd rather you have to remove fuel than add it.
Also, check your injector dead times. If those are ID1050xs, I don;t think your dead times are correct, and they also provide small pulsewidth information you can enter. Those are the top two menus in the fuel tab.
#79
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: VA Beach
Posts: 1,998
Total Cats: 51
That looks better. With a 110kpa boost limit and 10kpa hysteresis, you'll only hit 100kpa, or naturally aspirated levels. That'll be incredibly difficult to drive at all. Don't treat overboost like a rev limiter, where you don't want to go any high whatsoever. Treat it like a failsafe, so set it 4-5psi over you intended boost levels and it'll only be there if something goes horrendously wrong. Then make sure your wastegate is working properly, vacuum line is well attached, and if you have EBC, it's plumbed and wired well.
***I set it to 110kpa for break in. Did not want it in boost for a bit. Motor only has 50 miles on it. EBC makes clicking noises when prompted in testing. So I think it should work.
Still no idea on those fuel table numbers. Just make sure to ease into boost when you drive it, if autotune starts to dump more fuel, extend that amount if not more out to red line, I'd rather you have to remove fuel than add it.
***Question on that, how much should I let autotune change? How many points and what percentage?
Also, check your injector dead times. If those are ID1050xs, I don;t think your dead times are correct, and they also provide small pulsewidth information you can enter. Those are the top two menus in the fuel tab.
***Yes they are ID1000 I'll go google dead time and learn about them, got me on that one I know nothing of what you speak.
***I set it to 110kpa for break in. Did not want it in boost for a bit. Motor only has 50 miles on it. EBC makes clicking noises when prompted in testing. So I think it should work.
Still no idea on those fuel table numbers. Just make sure to ease into boost when you drive it, if autotune starts to dump more fuel, extend that amount if not more out to red line, I'd rather you have to remove fuel than add it.
***Question on that, how much should I let autotune change? How many points and what percentage?
Also, check your injector dead times. If those are ID1050xs, I don;t think your dead times are correct, and they also provide small pulsewidth information you can enter. Those are the top two menus in the fuel tab.
***Yes they are ID1000 I'll go google dead time and learn about them, got me on that one I know nothing of what you speak.
#80
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,012
Total Cats: 859
I don’t find overboost to work that way. I’ve also heard people talk about “anticipation”. I don’t observe that either. I do admit I have not combed the code, however.
In my experience, I have never had overboost kick in until my set limit was actually attained. Then, hysteresis is when power is allowed to
return. MS3 1.4.X and 1.5.X FW.
EDIT ON HYSTERESIS
DNM
In my experience, I have never had overboost kick in until my set limit was actually attained. Then, hysteresis is when power is allowed to
return. MS3 1.4.X and 1.5.X FW.
EDIT ON HYSTERESIS
DNM
Last edited by DNMakinson; 06-06-2021 at 07:23 AM.