The Slowest Miata in Tampa Build
#21
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 3,102
Total Cats: 559
Get the FM clutch.
My excedy flywheel is fine but the clutch gave up very early. Also the excedy pilot bearing sucks and will fail. Don't use it, it has metal shields instead of rubber seals, all the grease spins out.
My excedy flywheel is fine but the clutch gave up very early. Also the excedy pilot bearing sucks and will fail. Don't use it, it has metal shields instead of rubber seals, all the grease spins out.
#22
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Jonesboro Arkansas
Posts: 553
Total Cats: 25
*intensifies* Peer Pressure
Boost is addictive
My vote on the clutch would be something else, I've owned both of those, a stage 1 exedy on a stock car was fine. Useless on a turbo car. The FM clutch on my msm seemed like it slipped from time to time under race conditions. I think the clutch was fine but the pressure plate seemed weak. I mean my peddle was softer than stock. I was WELL under the TQ rating too.
Boost is addictive
My vote on the clutch would be something else, I've owned both of those, a stage 1 exedy on a stock car was fine. Useless on a turbo car. The FM clutch on my msm seemed like it slipped from time to time under race conditions. I think the clutch was fine but the pressure plate seemed weak. I mean my peddle was softer than stock. I was WELL under the TQ rating too.
#23
Car is at Maztech getting an Exedy stage 1 clutch installed and should be done by the end of the week. I read all of the reviews about FM, ACT, Exedy and looked at my plans for the car, and the exedy meets my needs. If I decide to go FI, then I'll curse my decision and make the change. Until then, the car has plenty of items on its to do list (safety upgrades, MS3...)
#24
Updates!!!
Car updates:
Exedy Stage 1 is installed. It works, which means it is better than the stock one that is was in there. The only issue I have is that I hear what sounds like a bearing squeak from the bellhousing. The weird thing is that it doesn't go away when I push in the clutch. I'm going to take it back to the shop in the next few weeks.
Events:
NASA Southeast at Roebling Road
First time at Roebling Road. A fun track to play around on as most areas have plenty of run off if you do go off. I went off in Turn 4 and Turn 5 just trying to push myself and the car just a little too far. Fastest lap was a 1:31.7.
NASA Florida at Sebring
I didn't originally plan it this way, but Sebring was the weekend after Roebling Road. Luckily the car didn't need anything critical between events, so I gave it a quick check and bled the brakes and off to Sebring I went. I drove the full course once before in 2014 in the BMW and this is my first time in the miata. I signed up for HPDE 1, but a rash of instructor cancellations had me go solo for the weekend except for check ride session on Sunday which got me signed off for HPDE 2. Still need a lot of work as I was never quite happy with 13 and 17 and i know I'm giving up time every where else too. Spec Miatas were running in the 2:41 - 2:44 this weekend. Here's my fastest lap of a 2:50.18. I'd love any feedback anyone has for going faster!
Car updates:
Exedy Stage 1 is installed. It works, which means it is better than the stock one that is was in there. The only issue I have is that I hear what sounds like a bearing squeak from the bellhousing. The weird thing is that it doesn't go away when I push in the clutch. I'm going to take it back to the shop in the next few weeks.
Events:
NASA Southeast at Roebling Road
First time at Roebling Road. A fun track to play around on as most areas have plenty of run off if you do go off. I went off in Turn 4 and Turn 5 just trying to push myself and the car just a little too far. Fastest lap was a 1:31.7.
NASA Florida at Sebring
I didn't originally plan it this way, but Sebring was the weekend after Roebling Road. Luckily the car didn't need anything critical between events, so I gave it a quick check and bled the brakes and off to Sebring I went. I drove the full course once before in 2014 in the BMW and this is my first time in the miata. I signed up for HPDE 1, but a rash of instructor cancellations had me go solo for the weekend except for check ride session on Sunday which got me signed off for HPDE 2. Still need a lot of work as I was never quite happy with 13 and 17 and i know I'm giving up time every where else too. Spec Miatas were running in the 2:41 - 2:44 this weekend. Here's my fastest lap of a 2:50.18. I'd love any feedback anyone has for going faster!
#25
Just a few off season updates
Track spares (coilpack, CAS, repacked front hubs)
A local junkyard had a ’99 miata show up in December. Went to check it out and pulled a few parts for myself as well as a bunch of drivetrain parts for friends. The spare parts kit that travels to tracks now includes the following
- Coil pack
- CAS
- Repacked front hubs, wheel nuts, and dust caps
I repacked 2 front hubs following the thread on miataturbo. This is my second set that I’ve done in 6 months. One thing I noticed is that the ball retainer cages seem to vary in pliability. The first set were high mileage hubs and the cages were very stiff and made it a pita to put the ***** back in. Took about 30 minutes/hub. The second set of hubs had about 15k miles and the cages were significantly more pliable and took 2 minutes/hub.
Rebuilding front hubs
Junkyard score
NVH Reduction
Another focus this offseason was NVH reduction. I’ve been having horrible idle and off-throttle cruise vibration vibration issues. Originally thought it was a botched clutch install, but took a swag and ordered mazda comp engine mounts to replace the ones that were on the car when I bought it. I didn’t think it would solve much, but figured engine mounts were less expensive that trying to reinstall the clutch. To my luck I found out that the engine mounts were generic and well past their end-of-life. 99% of my NVH issues went away. Idle, off-throttle cruise issues are gone and overall sound levels in the cabin are drastically reduced.
old vs. new
My hardtop has been rattling over rough patches of road and traced it back to the plates that interface with the Frankenstein bolts. The non-metallic coating was gone and the Frankenstein bolt would cause metal-on-metal contact. Haven't had any hardtop rattles since the swap.
old worn out plates (left shows coating worn away)
Safety updates
I had a successful first year in 2017 running a few events in NASA-FL and NASA-SE. I’ll be running more HPDEs in 2018 and wanted to up the safety of the car. So I purchased the following for the car & me:
- Sparco Pro 2000 seat
- PCI adjustable mount
- Schroth Profi II 6 Hans harness
- HANS III
The seat hardware will arrive this week, so I’ll be doing the seat install next weekend. I purchased a 4# hammer to massage the tunnel and expect that the door card may need to be modified/removed/replaced. I’ve been looking at the LRB hybrid panels as an alternative especially since he is local.
Track spares (coilpack, CAS, repacked front hubs)
A local junkyard had a ’99 miata show up in December. Went to check it out and pulled a few parts for myself as well as a bunch of drivetrain parts for friends. The spare parts kit that travels to tracks now includes the following
- Coil pack
- CAS
- Repacked front hubs, wheel nuts, and dust caps
I repacked 2 front hubs following the thread on miataturbo. This is my second set that I’ve done in 6 months. One thing I noticed is that the ball retainer cages seem to vary in pliability. The first set were high mileage hubs and the cages were very stiff and made it a pita to put the ***** back in. Took about 30 minutes/hub. The second set of hubs had about 15k miles and the cages were significantly more pliable and took 2 minutes/hub.
Rebuilding front hubs
Junkyard score
NVH Reduction
Another focus this offseason was NVH reduction. I’ve been having horrible idle and off-throttle cruise vibration vibration issues. Originally thought it was a botched clutch install, but took a swag and ordered mazda comp engine mounts to replace the ones that were on the car when I bought it. I didn’t think it would solve much, but figured engine mounts were less expensive that trying to reinstall the clutch. To my luck I found out that the engine mounts were generic and well past their end-of-life. 99% of my NVH issues went away. Idle, off-throttle cruise issues are gone and overall sound levels in the cabin are drastically reduced.
old vs. new
My hardtop has been rattling over rough patches of road and traced it back to the plates that interface with the Frankenstein bolts. The non-metallic coating was gone and the Frankenstein bolt would cause metal-on-metal contact. Haven't had any hardtop rattles since the swap.
old worn out plates (left shows coating worn away)
Safety updates
I had a successful first year in 2017 running a few events in NASA-FL and NASA-SE. I’ll be running more HPDEs in 2018 and wanted to up the safety of the car. So I purchased the following for the car & me:
- Sparco Pro 2000 seat
- PCI adjustable mount
- Schroth Profi II 6 Hans harness
- HANS III
The seat hardware will arrive this week, so I’ll be doing the seat install next weekend. I purchased a 4# hammer to massage the tunnel and expect that the door card may need to be modified/removed/replaced. I’ve been looking at the LRB hybrid panels as an alternative especially since he is local.
#30
Car upgrades
Power - added a K&N typhoon intake (thanks @Blkbrd69 !) and a Racing Beat header. I notice a little bit more power, but nothing to right home about. Eventually, I may decided to pick up an ECU. For now, this works.
Tires - replaced the beatup RS3v2s with new-to-me RS4s (thanks again @Blkbrd69 !). Notice more grip in braking and maybe marginal lateral grip. Overall, I like them and seems like they are a great 225/45 HPDE tire.
Track events
I did 2 events at Sebring this spring. I was focusing heavily on improving my technique and being able to make improvements during a session. Quite pleased as I lowered my personal best at Sebring from a 2:50 to a 2:48.
Also, I was signed off to move up to HPDE 3 with NASA, which has much better flow when compared to HPDE 1&2. Instructor was very complimentary of the evaluation and was a good confidence booster.
Power - added a K&N typhoon intake (thanks @Blkbrd69 !) and a Racing Beat header. I notice a little bit more power, but nothing to right home about. Eventually, I may decided to pick up an ECU. For now, this works.
Tires - replaced the beatup RS3v2s with new-to-me RS4s (thanks again @Blkbrd69 !). Notice more grip in braking and maybe marginal lateral grip. Overall, I like them and seems like they are a great 225/45 HPDE tire.
Track events
I did 2 events at Sebring this spring. I was focusing heavily on improving my technique and being able to make improvements during a session. Quite pleased as I lowered my personal best at Sebring from a 2:50 to a 2:48.
Also, I was signed off to move up to HPDE 3 with NASA, which has much better flow when compared to HPDE 1&2. Instructor was very complimentary of the evaluation and was a good confidence booster.
#31
Update:
No new modifications with the car. Same setup as earlier in the year. I wish budget would allow more track time, but for I do with what I got.
I've been looking into data acquisition and tried our an AIM Solo 2 that is on loan. I'm able to collect data in the morning, review at lunch time, and make changes in the afternoon. Goal will be to see if I can be efficient enough to look at data between sessions.
I ran with Chin this weekend at Sebring. Checked off for intermediate and got a lot of practice with point bys as the majority of cars are either pretty quick 911s or Corvettes with Chin. Cleaned up a few sections and dropped my personal best to 2:46. Overall a great weekend.
No new modifications with the car. Same setup as earlier in the year. I wish budget would allow more track time, but for I do with what I got.
I've been looking into data acquisition and tried our an AIM Solo 2 that is on loan. I'm able to collect data in the morning, review at lunch time, and make changes in the afternoon. Goal will be to see if I can be efficient enough to look at data between sessions.
I ran with Chin this weekend at Sebring. Checked off for intermediate and got a lot of practice with point bys as the majority of cars are either pretty quick 911s or Corvettes with Chin. Cleaned up a few sections and dropped my personal best to 2:46. Overall a great weekend.
Last edited by vtbandit; 11-05-2019 at 08:51 PM.
#33
Just a few updates. Over the winter I decided to increase the power on the miata so i purchased squaretop and a MS3 Mini. Installs were quasi time consuming but straight forward.
MS3 Mini
I've done a ton of reading and research. Thanks to @Pedxing, @Morello , and @EErockMiata for either great guides or build threads. I merged what I've learned on here, Engine Management by Banish, and the MS forum and put together a pretty good tune and settings where other than a cold start that takes 2 seconds to start, everything seems to be pretty good.
Intake:
I did an A/B test between a cold side intake I fabricated per the SPM recipt and the incumbent K&N. I live in Florida so flat ground wasn't difficult to find. I installed the cold side intake, did 3 pulls at different WOT timings (30 deg, 32 deg, 34 deg). Then I went home, swapped in the K&N intake and repeated the test. All tests were done between 3-5PM where the temperature doesn't fluctuate much in Florida. I came to the following conclusions:
1. K&N produced ~ 1 more HP/TQ than the cold side intake
2. K&N intake had access to cooler air than the cold side based on the hole behind the driver headlight. I limited the scope of this project in that I didn't want to modify the car by drilling any holes for providing cooler air.
IAT:
I've been reading the testing that @ByteVenom has been doing on IAT sensor and heat soak. I've been working on simiar things to reduce it as I've observed heatsoak with the cold side intake as well as the K&N intake. I've have good luck with the GM grommet-style IAT sensor from Ballenger IAT Sensor. I also referenced this thread Awesome heat shield thread and went to the local junkyard and picked up two heat shields to use for fabrication.
I fab'd 3 shields. the first two are attached to the top of the radiator and used to channel the air away from the intake tube. Third is an additional barrier to block heat from the exhaust. An A/B test shows the following:
No shields test
Ambient = 85 degrees
IAT after 40 minute drive with start/stop & highway cruise. enough driving to get everything hot = 126 degrees
With shields
Ambient = 77 degrees
IAT after 40 minute drive with start/stop & highway cruise. enough driving to get everything hot = 101 degrees
MS3 Mini
I've done a ton of reading and research. Thanks to @Pedxing, @Morello , and @EErockMiata for either great guides or build threads. I merged what I've learned on here, Engine Management by Banish, and the MS forum and put together a pretty good tune and settings where other than a cold start that takes 2 seconds to start, everything seems to be pretty good.
Intake:
I did an A/B test between a cold side intake I fabricated per the SPM recipt and the incumbent K&N. I live in Florida so flat ground wasn't difficult to find. I installed the cold side intake, did 3 pulls at different WOT timings (30 deg, 32 deg, 34 deg). Then I went home, swapped in the K&N intake and repeated the test. All tests were done between 3-5PM where the temperature doesn't fluctuate much in Florida. I came to the following conclusions:
1. K&N produced ~ 1 more HP/TQ than the cold side intake
2. K&N intake had access to cooler air than the cold side based on the hole behind the driver headlight. I limited the scope of this project in that I didn't want to modify the car by drilling any holes for providing cooler air.
IAT:
I've been reading the testing that @ByteVenom has been doing on IAT sensor and heat soak. I've been working on simiar things to reduce it as I've observed heatsoak with the cold side intake as well as the K&N intake. I've have good luck with the GM grommet-style IAT sensor from Ballenger IAT Sensor. I also referenced this thread Awesome heat shield thread and went to the local junkyard and picked up two heat shields to use for fabrication.
I fab'd 3 shields. the first two are attached to the top of the radiator and used to channel the air away from the intake tube. Third is an additional barrier to block heat from the exhaust. An A/B test shows the following:
No shields test
Ambient = 85 degrees
IAT after 40 minute drive with start/stop & highway cruise. enough driving to get everything hot = 126 degrees
With shields
Ambient = 77 degrees
IAT after 40 minute drive with start/stop & highway cruise. enough driving to get everything hot = 101 degrees
#35
Here's the datalogs from the intake testing.
Tests
1. DIY Supermiata cold side intake runs at 30, 32, and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm. (32 degrees was my baseline and I'd go and either -2 or +2 degrees from 3k - 7.2k rpm).
2. K&N typhoon intake w/ no heat shielding at 30, 32, and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm.
3. K&N typhoon intake w/ heat shielding at 32 and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm. (3/22 test date)
Test deviations:
1. this was pretty flat land, but seems like the direction I'm going causes a change in HP of ~ 8hp. Also, I didn't do a good job recording what direction I was travelling on tests #1 & #2 but I did on #3.
2. Test #2 was 20 pounds heavier than #1 (refueling)
3. Test #3 was the same weight as #2.
4. Test #3 had a tweak to the VE table to lean it out and try to get the AFR to 12.6:1. My notes show I took out 2-5% fuel from 6200 - 7200 rpm.
Tests
1. DIY Supermiata cold side intake runs at 30, 32, and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm. (32 degrees was my baseline and I'd go and either -2 or +2 degrees from 3k - 7.2k rpm).
2. K&N typhoon intake w/ no heat shielding at 30, 32, and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm.
3. K&N typhoon intake w/ heat shielding at 32 and 34 degrees timing at 103 kpa/7200 rpm. (3/22 test date)
Test deviations:
1. this was pretty flat land, but seems like the direction I'm going causes a change in HP of ~ 8hp. Also, I didn't do a good job recording what direction I was travelling on tests #1 & #2 but I did on #3.
2. Test #2 was 20 pounds heavier than #1 (refueling)
3. Test #3 was the same weight as #2.
4. Test #3 had a tweak to the VE table to lean it out and try to get the AFR to 12.6:1. My notes show I took out 2-5% fuel from 6200 - 7200 rpm.
#39
A naturally aspirated Miata getting a point by out of Turn 5 by a GT and a C5Z is priceless. Amazing how much closure you can get through 3-5 with some good lines and aggression.
Your driving is coming along fantastic, looks like your sandbagging given the line of the Vette.
Where is the cool intake air coming from?
Your driving is coming along fantastic, looks like your sandbagging given the line of the Vette.
Where is the cool intake air coming from?
#40
A naturally aspirated Miata getting a point by out of Turn 5 by a GT and a C5Z is priceless. Amazing how much closure you can get through 3-5 with some good lines and aggression.
Your driving is coming along fantastic, looks like your sandbagging given the line of the Vette.
Where is the cool intake air coming from?
Your driving is coming along fantastic, looks like your sandbagging given the line of the Vette.
Where is the cool intake air coming from?
As far as the intake, I'm trying to engineer something that is better than what it is now, as it is only the two locations i have highlighted in blue. I kicking around the idea of ducting cooler air from the the bumper opening or from a brake duct opening (shown below). I'm open to suggestions.
Blue = cooler air from small opening just before radiator and from the opening just after the driver headlight.